Episode #526: Business Savvy for Gym Owners-Vince Gabriele Talks Metrics, Client Value, and Growth

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1:03 This is Pete Moore on Halo Talks NYC. I have the pleasure of bringing from the great state of New Jersey, Vince Gabriel, personal trainer to mastermind consultant. Welcome to your first Halo Talks, my friend. Thanks for having me, Pete. Honored to be here, brother. Awesome. So as I was going through your materials, I saw you had a, you had a review and a reference to Thomas Plummer, so I don't really need to read much further than that. Maybe for those people who have not been in the industry before, talk about the, Thomas Plummer, you know, roadshow. I I sat my 1st Perform Better seminar as a 22 year old personal trainer, and I saw Plummer speak.

1:44 And I was like, I wanna do that one day. And I remember I wanted bought one of his books right after he spoke. And I was sitting there reading his book, and he walked by with his big entourage. Tommy used to walk with his entourage of people. There's, like, 20 people behind him, and I remember he saw me that I bought his book. He looked at me. He's like, that's a good book, young man, and he kept walking. And little did I know that he and I would become, you know, close friends. He's a big mentor of mine, and, you know, I owe a lot of the things that I'm doing in the industry for gym owners to to plumbers. So amazing guy. Yeah. So back in 2000 to 2003, I had started a software company, and our one marketing expense was to go on the Thomas Plumber tour, which was probably, like, 12 cities in, you know Yeah. In 8 months. And, you know, it was it was kinda like a traveling circus, if you will, but, like, a good kind of circus.

2:36 Yes. And he said, if you need some software, go to that guy. If you need some per personal training, go to that guy. If you need Yep. Treadmills, go to that guy. Take out your daycare center. And then, like, there was a wrap. Always a generous guy. Yep. So so, look, you started up, you know, as a personal trainer. Obviously, you were, like, kinda looking at this and and saying, like, there's things that could be done more efficiently here. There are things that, you know, can be done to maximize profits. You looked at small group training. So talk about, you know, 1, your background, and then 2, kind of, like, your intuition to kinda, like, go deeper and say, hey. I'm not just gonna figure this out for myself, but I actually wanna bring this and and scale it. Yeah.

3:17 So the real quick story is I was a offensive lineman at Temple that was £300, and I needed to lose weight. And I got into bodybuilding magazines and the the whole deal, And I ended up losing weight and got my, ISSA certification and all of that old school stuff. Right? I moved to San Diego, got my first job as a personal trainer, and I was working with mostly pro athletes and high school athletes at the time. And, you know, 5 years as a personal trainer doing a lot of 1 on 1 stuff, I kinda got pretty burnt out and wasn't making a lot of money. I think the most much money I ever made was, like, 37 k in a year.

3:58 And, I always kinda knew when I got into the industry that I wanted to open up my own gym. So I I moved to New Jersey where I'm from originally, opened my own brick and mortar gym. And did okay in the in the 1st year or so, but then got really I know you're a financial guy. I got really into some hot water because I wasn't doing a great job with managing money and managing my finances and everything like that. I got into some really hard stuff financially, and that is when I realized I needed to learn how to run a business. I was a personal trainer, but I had no idea how to run a business. And I kinda I read the at that point, I had written, the E Myth Revisited. I read that book, and I I I wrote I I was lucky enough to find some good business knowledge. I found Dan Kennedy at the time, learned about marketing and everything like that. And I really just kinda put my head down and educated myself on business as much as I possibly could, and I turned my whole gym around. We got to 7 figures very quickly. And then all of a sudden, there's all these people coming out of the woodwork asking me how to grow a business, how to grow a gym, and make money with it. And that kinda was the origin of me being a consultant to other gym owners. But it wasn't until I fixed my own gym, and I had to learn about business and learn about money.

5:25 So I I only was teaching other people because I was able to do it myself first. So, you know, if you want to, if we kinda go down this trail of, like, you know, what do you think would your top 3 or top 2 biggest mistakes were that you were able to fix, obviously, later on when they became much larger, you know, emergency issues for you? But if you said, hey. If I if I was starting from scratch again, you know, here's a couple of things that I would I would avoid, or here's a couple of things I did that I will never do. So I know you're a finance guy, Pete, so you'll appreciate the story. I had early on hired a consultant to come in and spend a day with me to help me with the business side of stuff. And she started asking me all these questions, like, what is your cost per lead?

6:14 What is the lifetime value of a customer? And she's asked them all these questions, and I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And she stood up, and she looked at me, and she's like, sorry, but I can't help you. And she walked out. Fuck. And it was like I remember it was one of the most embarrassing things that's ever happened to me. And she basically said she's like, you don't know your number, so I can't really help you. And that was probably if I look back now, it I went way too long not looking at the data, which is the critical drivers and scorecards, the leading indicators, and then the financials and learning how to read a financial statement. And it's it's weird today. Like, I used to not know how to read a financial statement. I have a mastermind group where we meet quarterly and we bring p and l. So I've looked at thousands of p and l's of gym owners. We do it every quarter and all the time. So I would say that that's probably one of the biggest mistakes I made and something I've really tried to teach all my guys.

7:11 You gotta know your numbers because when you know your numbers, you're living in reality. Yeah. A lot of times, we we we look at things emotionally. We look at things. Well, I feel like this is a problem or I feel like that's a problem. But if you know your data and you know your numbers, you actually know what problems you have and you know what problems you need to fix. Yeah. I mean, that's a great that's a great point. There's companies that we've worked with where they're just checking the cash that's in the bank every day and not really, like, looking at what the KPIs are. It's just like a cat. They basically run a cash business. Granted, you know, that that is the most simplistic way to run the business. The cash flow is either up or it's down, and we got an issue, but you you don't really have any kinda you know, you you don't know what what's driving that. Right? Right. Is the issue. So we we had a client, you know, and he's awesome, but he's like, he when are you when are you guys gonna tell me what my EBITDA is? You know? Like, what what what are you gonna tell me on this business? I've been running for a long time. Like, what what what's the metric that you're trying to hit? And I'm like, well, you kinda should run your business like that in the past. However, like, we'll figure it out for you. We'll tell you. But every month going forward, you're gonna, like, know this number. Yeah. That's the one you're gonna actually drive towards because that's the one you're getting valued off of. So Yep. So that that's gonna be our primary one. Absolutely. You know, as you kinda got good at what you're doing on your own you know, look. We're in the services business, Dave and I. Right? So we're trying to help people raise money. We're trying to help people optimize their their business in order to get capital or in order to get to a place where you could sell the business.

8:41 You know? And that and that takes time, and that's you have to show that there's, like, an engine. And, like, here's how the engine works, and here's how the car runs. As you've kinda take a look at, you know, you could've probably raised money and said, hey. I'm gonna go replicate what I built, and I'm gonna go do, you know, 20, 30, 50 personal training studios, you know, in the tristate area. Instead, you decided to go down this path of writing a book, exposing your, you know, you you you're basically, you know, giving people your playbook. You know? You'd be up for $20 or $30. I didn't buy the book yet, but ultimate, you know, gym owners marketing guide. Right? It's a ultimate marketing guide for gym owners. So so how did you kinda go down and see, like, hey. I'm kinda here to serve, which kinda what a personal trainer does, like, to be part of your DNA.

9:32 And I'm gonna stop asking the question right now because there's questions in there. So I haven't got a question mark at the end. So fire away, bro. So I I I went back and forth with what I wanted to do. Right? And as a gym owner, a lot of times, you think, what is the next thing? The next thing is more gyms and open up more gyms. And I I was friends with a guy named Seth Godin at the time, and I was emailed by this with Seth. And, actually, one of my masterminds, we went to his office, and that was a scary sight for Seth that, twelve very, very large men walked into his office. Like, he's not that wasn't the crowd that Seth was used to, but I got to be friends with him. And I asked him. I was like, I'm going back and forth with opening up, a second gym. And his advice for me was, I I think you should think long and hard about opening a second gym. He's like, one gym means you run a gym. 10 gyms means you're in the business of running gyms, but 2 gyms kinda just means you're all over the place. And what it meant was if you're not gonna do 10, don't do 2. And that was, like, my thing. I was like, I I I don't want 10. I don't want 15.

10:39 I don't want 50 gyms. That's just not me. This this is not how I roll. And I was like, I'm just gonna have one really good one and then teach others how to one how to run one really good gym. So it was really that advice that kinda changed the game for me. And my natural like, I love to speak. I love to write. I'm kinda in the the what's what we call an information marketing business. Mhmm. And that just fits my skill set. Right? My skill set, I like to write. I like to speak. So it was just a very good kind of sweet spot for me personally. Now I have a lot of guys that are opening up multiple gyms and scaling, in my group, but it was just not my decision to go that route.

11:24 This is Pete Moore. I wanna let you in on a little secret. There's this company called Promotion Vault, and what they do is they give out rewards from retailers that allow you to incentivize your members without having to do 0 down and 1 month free or giving away shakes or giving away T shirts. What you wanna do is build a rewards program that lasts, that people value, and that doesn't discount your own products and services. So here's the deal. There's something called rewards vault. The rewards vault is going to allow a member to set up their own profile. They are going to answer questions. You are gonna get those answers. You're gonna be able to target those members, and you're gonna reward them inside your club, inside your spa, and outside of the club and outside of the spa to get them to become loyal, to get them to pay their monthly dues, and to be rewarded properly for the actions. A lot of companies are cutting back on rewards. You shouldn't be. Promotion Vault's your answer. Trust me. This is real.

12:28 When you see, I'll just get a a question because, like, this comes up my brain every now often. Now now and again where it's like, hey. I helped this this operator go from, like, you know, 10 and there's this one guy. Actually, he was 17 when I got involved. Now there's, like, a 105. You know? And I I can do the math on, like, what his ownership is, what his percentage of that, what his net worth is. Obviously, we get paid, like, on, you know, the deal. We might get paid some, like, retainer. But I'm like, hey. I kinda like if I didn't do this, he wouldn't have done that, and now there's, like, another 90 clubs that have, like, 8,000 members. You know? There's, like, a 1000000 people that get to work out now because of, like, this deal that I helped them get done. And I'm sitting here. They'll be like, hey.

13:12 I don't owe any percentage of that. But at the same time, like, sighted that, like, I don't I guess the financial side, like, yeah, that'd be great if I had, you know, 5%. But it's also great that there's a 105, and that's kinda, like, gets me excited more than, like, the capital component of that. So how do you kind of bifurcate between, like yo. I could've done that and, you know, I could've had this potential value, but I also actually probably had this amount of sleep, and I probably woulda had this amount of liability. And who knows when the next, you know, COVID wave's coming through that makes that all look like awesome idea, but wrong timing? I think it's a great question, and I think it all comes back to your definition of success. Right? I think that some people have a view of success, but I think only you can define define your own definition of success. And for me, like, having a 105 gyms, yeah, that's a financially successful viable thing. But I have my own definition of success, which is, you know, a ton of time with my kids and time with my wife and being, you know, able to do the work I I want to do, and live a lifestyle that I want.

14:17 So it it really was a probably the one one of the most powerful things I've done in my life was define success because then I I I don't see what others are doing, and I'm like, oh, I wish I did that. Oh, I wish I did this. I have created my definition of what I view is success, and then I go after and do it. I'm kinda I'm kinda living that right now, and I'm happy for the guys that you know, I have one guy in my group. He's opened up, you know, 10 gyms in the last, like, 20 months. Yeah. And he's killing it, and he's making a lot of money, and I'm proud of him and happy for him. Yeah. You know, when when you go back to to where you started of being a personal trainer, what do you think some of the traits of personal trainers are that allow them to become where you're at or to, you know, say, hey. I did 3 years of personal training here, and now I'm going to open up a club and and, you know, a lot of if you're a celeb I'll say this. If If you're a celebrity trainer, like, you got your own kinda, like, ego and, like, diva kinda power, which might limit your ability to go and open up a business that doesn't have your name on it necessarily. But I feel like a lot of personal trainers have become very successful club operators very successful managers, and have gotten private equity. They start as a personal trainer. I don't know if you've kinda, like, looked back and say, like, hey. What did I learn? Because I learned, you know, a lot of patience.

15:41 Am I a really good listener? You know, give give me a couple, like, traits that you say, like, if I wasn't a personal trainer, I don't think I would've gotten these things out of myself. I I think it all comes back to your ability to deal with people. I always say, like, a good trainer is when a client is driving to the gym and is like, I cannot wait to spend an hour with someone. I used to have a guy named Big Tom, and Big Tom was he was the first trainer ever hard. He was 6 a Tom Plummer. No. No. No. I was kidding. This is yeah. But I I remember there there's a story where I had this decision to make. He was a he was 6 foot 9, and he had no really education in fitness. He only if he played college football, but but, like, had no CSES or anything like that. And then I was also hiring at the same time looking at another guy that was, like, the perfect trainer on paper.

16:36 Right? He had every kinda credential, degree in the field, all of that stuff. And I'm going back and forth between these two guys. And I was like, I picked the guy that on paper was, like, probably not the right person to pick, and there was some intangible that this guy had. And I think if I could pinpoint it, it was like people really enjoyed being around him. And you could be a great x's and o's person and a great you know, have all the knowledge and all the things, but if people don't like spending an hour with you, they're not gonna stay a client. And so this guy, he was with me for 13 years. We had an unbelievable relationship with very good friends today. He ended up, going off and opening his own gym, afterwards. But I I would say that it was his ability to deal with people. It was his ability to be able to kinda get people to laugh, to get people to be engaged that was the one quality, if you will. Now I I will say this, there are a lot of really good personal trainers that are don't become good gym owners.

17:34 Right? And so it's not like just because that's one thing. So you have to be able I think as a business owner, you have to be able to overmanage your own emotions. Like, that's probably one of the most important things that I teach my guys. Like, we teach I don't teach this a lot on the marketing side of my business, but when they get inside of my groups, we are teaching them mindset. We are teaching them how to control emotions. We're teaching them how to make decisions. So just because you're a good trainer and you are able to be good with people does not mean that's gonna translate to to being a good gym owner. So it's, but but if I were to answer the question with the quality of a personal trainer, I was like, 100%. You just have the good have a good personality, get to be able to deal with people well, and people wanna be able to spend an hour with you. Yep. You know, in in your marketing materials on on your media kit, you talk about, you know, impacting communities and and kinda making the the personal training, you know, department almost like, you know, the the impact, you know, investing part of, like, the the the club or, like, here's how, like, you really create a tight community and then kinda that kinda emanates from from there. Those are, like, buzzwords that a lot of people kinda use, but it seems like something that you've actually instituted into, like, a business model. Can you talk about how others do that or, like, if you go to one of your seminars or go you know, the you know, what do you what do you get at? Or, like, what's the story behind the story on how you do that and not just say, like, we're a community based place. You know? We, you know,

19:05 value our our members. You know? A lot of that's buzzwords, but there's like a there's like a playbook for that. Yeah. So I would say, you know, on the gym side of things, I think CrossFit did a really good job of this, of of teaching gyms how to build communities, and we had definitely, you know, benefited from that. But, I mean, there's all kinds of things that people are doing these days, especially in in these gyms that are not just getting people to come work out. They're getting people to, become part of this very, very thing that's bigger than themselves. And so you you talk about the Starbucks 3rd place thing. I think that a lot of gyms have done a really good job of their gym being kind of that 3rd place, in in their community. And I think that that's, like, what drives retention.

19:58 Like, it's like it's almost like the the hair salons. Like, someone never changes their hairstylist. They just, like, keep going over and over and over again, because they have built a relationship with that. And I think it kinda goes back to what I was saying before. The leader of the business kinda needs to foster that, and it really needs to do do a good job of fostering that. If the leader of the business isn't a good kinda person that brings people together, it's gonna be really hard and challenging to do. So, yeah, so a lot of our guys are are doing all kinds of stuff locally in charity events and things like that, but, I think it's a huge area of of retention for these guys to be able to build communities, get their get their clients involved in what's going on, you know, with the day to day of their business for sure.

20:49 So so one of the things I wanna pivot over to is, you know, there's been a lot of inflation across the entire, you know, US economy. There's a lot of low cost operators that are, you know, still out there and saying, you know, $15 a month or $19 a month. Obviously, that doesn't include personal training. Some people do have, you know, personal training on EFT where, you know, you go once once a week or you go twice a week, and that's kind of embedded. I'm I'm still having a problem with what it cost me to take an Uber from, like, 82nd Street to, like, Grand Central and realizing that that's, like, $60 during whatever time that they feel like, you know, making it $60. Whereas I'm getting a health club membership for, like, 19, and we get, like, small group training, and it's pay it cost me, like, $99 a month at the place that's, like, keeping me seen, alive, and thriving. Yet I'm paying, like, this Uber driver, no offense, and I just got $60. You know?

21:48 So when you take a look at price in this industry, you know, there's personal trainers that say, hey. Look. You know, it it should be, like, 2, $300 an hour to to spend time with me. And others are, like, you know, no. We're gonna do, like, $25. It's marked up to 50 by the club. It's like, what's the price to value, and how do you, like, stop racing to the bottom of something that we should be racing to the top of? Yeah. I I think the most important part about price is choosing the right customers. And, typically, when you choose the right customers, price isn't so much of an issue. So when I first opened my business, I was a 23 year old kid. I couldn't imagine spending $500 a month on a gym membership. Right? It was just didn't make any sense to me. But the people that I was helping, the clients that I had, were doctors and lawyers and finance people in New Jersey. And I would tell them $500 a month, and then they would almost, like, snicker and be like, that's it? Right. Exactly. And to me, that didn't make any sense. But to them, it's like to this lawyer that values and knows he needs his health because he's got a really stressed job. $500 a month for a gym membership is like a drop in the bucket. So the key is and then I'm not saying that's everybody. Right? There's some people that definitely hemmed and hawed, but the reality of the situation is you decide on price based on the target market of the person. And if you wanna be able to have a premium business and a business that charges a a a a a good amount of money, then you want to decide and narrow the

23:21 market to be able to find people that can afford that. So I think a lot of it comes back to, you know, your marketing and you deciding who is the person that I want in this business. So that's what I always say. It's like, that is the most important decision, right, is not what you're gonna sell. The most important decision is who's gonna buy it. And I have so many people that come to me for business advice all the time, and they have no they they they get obsessed with their product. They get obsessed with the thing they're gonna sell. But it's just, like, get obsessed with the person. Get obsessed with the person that's gonna buy it. What are their fears? What are their desires? What are their dreams? And then get to know that. I just spoke at a at a franchise conference called Alloy Personal Training. I was on stage Oh, yeah. Just this past weekend. And that was one of my key points in in the whole thing is is getting a PhD in your customer to to really understand on a deeper level what is this person, what are their needs, what are their fears, what are their pains, what are their desires, and then build a business around solving that person's problems. And you'll be able to charge a a a decent, amount of money for what you're doing.

24:30 This is Pete Moore. Here's the last tip for you of the podcast. We are partnered up with a company called Higher Dose. Higherdose.com. They are the leader in workout recovery products, infrared technology, LED light masks, neck enhancers, and other products such as PMF mats and sauna blankets. If you have not gotten on the workout recovery train yet, your time and your stop is now. You gotta get these products in there before these workout recovery and spas end up saturating your market, having your members walk out of the club and going into one of their locations for $200 per month where they paid 39 to you. Let's become an expert in workout recovery if we are already an authority in workouts. Higher dose, check it out. There's a wholesale code, and we look forward to helping you augment your products and services to meet the demands of your members. And, hey, let's get people happy, healthy, and sweating, and the recovery should be just as good as the workout.

25:41 A lot of people have been talking for the last couple of years about artificial intelligence. And I, I took one of my jackets, my old black white black jackets, and I put on a big logo on the back that said, you can't have artificial intelligence until you have intelligence. Yeah. I see that. You know? Go to software companies, you ask them, like, slice and dice the date. It's like, bro, all you have is, like, the guy's name, his birthday, and his credit card. Like, what do you want? I'm just slice and dice. Right? It's just, like, bizarre to me that you can't run your business to the point of what you're saying. It's like, when someone buys your business, they're buying your member database, right, in your lease. The other the other stuff is just, like, noise. Right? So, like, an afterthought. So when you think about, like, quantifying and, like, getting this data, you know, is there a part of, like, your marketing plan that says, like, look. You gotta go deep. I gotta know if I'm a personal trainer, if you're my personal trainer, you know, and I'm saying, yeah. I've worked out with Vince. You probably know more about me than if I actually had a therapist, which I've haven't gotten one in 52 years because my mom used to say, like, oh, cousin so and so goes to a therapist. Like, if I went to therapy, I'd be, like, you know, at that level of, like, crisis mode, which her and I have a little issue about that. However, let's not talk about my mom. Yeah. So let's not go there, bro. And my point is, like, what kind of data are you collecting or that you know that running one location you might not need to, like, put into a database, but it would be nice if it was in there, almost like an activity log of, like, everything you know

27:12 about me? Yep. Yeah. No. It's essential. And we do it pretty basic. I'm sure there's way more sophisticated ways to do this, but we have a what we call a client card. And every client that comes into our gym has a client card, and there are certain data points that we look for. Some of it, obviously, is when they come in, there's a movement screen that they do, so we'll know if there's a a bad knee or a bad shoulder. And whoever the trainer is that trains that person that day, they have that info. But it's also the intangible stuff. It's what are their kids' names? It's what do their kids do? It's like that. Yeah. And it and it's like, what is their job? Right? What do they do for a living? Do they sit all day? Are they up and moving and and everything like that? So, yes, we have an entire, card essentially on each person that that we do. At some point, if it got much bigger and scaled, we would need to automate that and create it into some kind of a software, which I'm sure someone out there is easily doing this. But for us and for those listening to this that, you know, have smaller businesses, you don't need to go high-tech on this stuff. We literally have a card and we write stuff in. And if something happens, I'll tweak their shoulder doing a shoulder press. We would write that on the card, and that gives us the notes, that we need to kinda keep moving forward to individualize their experience. Awesome. You know, in closing here, you want to, you know, give a give us, you know, a a a takeaway or a story, you know, or or who's the right

28:44 people to reach out to you, you know, what what kind of situation that they may be in? Yeah. Yeah. So I I work mainly with brick and mortar gym owners. And, you know, essentially, the thing we do, we try to simplify it. I really think businesses can be broken down into 3 things, getting clients, keeping clients, and building cash. And that's kind of the provide the service that that we provide for our guys is to to really getting people focused to focus on what matters and what are the few things that you're gonna do, the whole 80 20 principle. What are the few things you're gonna do that is going to move the needle, the best for your business? So, if you're a business owner that was into getting clients and keeping clients and building cash, then we can certainly help you. Best thing for them to do is just go to, get my book for free. It's just, smogerpersonaltraining.com, and they can get it for free, at that link. Awesome. Well, we use the halo acronym, Health Active Lifestyle Outdoors. So you're here by now, you know, an anointed halo evangelist. Thank you. And, you know, you can use that royalty free and look forward to, meeting you up in person here. Thanks for having me, Pete. Alright, man. Awesome.

29:53 Good to meet you.