Episode #534: Bringing Athletic Expertise to Connected Fitness with Troy Taylor from Tonal

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I am super excited to announce that we now have a formal partnership

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times that of the average. We got the Atlanta Clubs on

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City Fitness Philly, College Park. Become one

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wizard. Go get them.

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This is Pete Moore on Halo Talks. I have the pleasure of bringing

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one of the elite trainers related to strength,

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ski, snowboard, and tonal to the show.

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We're talking today with Troy Taylor, senior director of

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performance, innovation, and potentially my future coach in the

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future here as soon as possible. So welcome to your first Halo

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Talks. I really appreciate you having me on. Awesome.

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So, look, we've kinda toggled between cardio is

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good for you. You know, you should go and and walk. You should do some

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strength training. I used to work with the group that owned Gold's Gym. I said,

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let's just stick true to, you know, to to to strength

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training and and look you good in the mirror. So talk about your

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background and, how things have kinda come full circle.

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Yeah. So my background, not to date myself, but for

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about 20 years was in the elite sports space. Was fortunate to

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work for 3 different Olympic teams, so team GB, team Canada, team

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USA, across about 10 or 11 different Olympic sports, 7

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Olympic games, ended up as a I was a sports scientist, a

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strength and conditioning coach, a physiologist, ended up as a high

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performance director at US Ski and Snowboard for about 6 years, around the

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Olympic team for the Pohang Chung Olympic games. So people like

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Mikaela Shiffrin, Lindsey Vonn, Sean White, that those types of people.

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So I've been involved in the sport fitness health space for my

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entire career. That's what my graduate degrees are in, and just sort

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of super enjoyed that. As it relates to sort of cardio and strength,

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like, all exercise, I think, for good. For those that are interested in living

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long and living living better for longer, both

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cardio and strength training are super important. I think for the

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longest time early in my career, particularly in the general population

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space, you know, it was very much a cardio first. You know, that's

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where you're gonna get most of your health benefits from. And the strength side of

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it was really for either for aesthetics and bodybuilding or bros that

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wanted to put on muscle mass and, you know, look look good in on

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the beach. And I think what you've seen over the last 5 to 10 years

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is a plethora of evidence of both sort of in the

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research side and now in social media of the value of strength

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training for long living healthy lives. Yep. So let let's

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start off with elite athletes. Talk about what it's

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like to train someone who, 1, is at that

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level, 2, probably has their own, you know, ideas

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and prescription of of how they wanna train,

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and how is it to manage somebody like that to to

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actually get them to the next level. And and and then we'll we'll talk

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about, you know, how to how that is like the top of the mountain, and

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then how do you train the the the mass market? Sure.

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Like, I think whether you're an elite athlete or general population, everyone's an

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individual. Right? So everyone's got their own specific quirks, either,

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you know, things that they like or don't like, things that their body responds to

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or don't responded to. And so I think you have to treat them as an

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individual. I would say painting a broad brush. Once an athlete

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gets to being on Olympic team, on a professional sports teams, they've

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had a lot of successful training and know a lot about what

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works for them. And so you would be a fool not to try and learn

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everything you can from them about their training and what has

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historically worked. But just because it's historically worked doesn't mean it's also

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optimal. And so you're keeping this balance between, like,

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understanding what they've worked, and and then sort of thinking about,

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okay. Well, is there ways that we could make this better? I refer a lot

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to the there's a an underlying psychological model, self determination

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theory. That really is about autonomy. Right? You having

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ownership in your program. So I like to give athletes and general population

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as much autonomy as they can. But you also need

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competency, so you need to be good at something, and you also

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need, to have relatedness or connectedness, a sense of purpose

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around that. But those are the underlying sort of, constructs of motivation

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of how you get someone. And I think the further up the elite athlete, the

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more autonomy you give them in their training on a broad basis.

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Some people not, but most people, yes. So let let's talk about

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you as a a director of performance innovation,

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which are kinda two words that are, you know, performance is kind of like,

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okay, that's like traditional. Innovation is like, you know, Troy needs to know like

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what the next best thing is or like every piece of technology,

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physiology. So how do you, if somebody's gonna

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wants to aspire to be in your position, how do you kinda manage

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and challenge yourself with also saying, hey. I'm not like, you know, a a

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magician, or I'm not trying every new thing.

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Sure. Yeah. It's, it's a tough balance. Number

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1, surround yourself with people much, much smarter than yourselves. I get to

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work with data scientists and hardware engineers and software engineers

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and, you know, other performance staff members that are far more intelligent than I

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am and have really good ideas. So so number 1 there. Number 2, I

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think you have to have principles or mechanisms, that you

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rely on to filter through the noise. Right? There's a lot of

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stuff out there. You could spend your entire career chasing your

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trail around, like, what's, you know, what's the new thing and some influencer

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is saying we should do this. And so you have to have kind of a

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checklist or principles. I tend to work off the idea that,

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like, is there a underlying mechanism, physiology,

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psychology, or some other that I can understand or someone smarter than me in my

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network, this makes sense that it should work. That's sort of number

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1. Number 2 would be, like, has it been shown to work in the

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doses that are physiologically normal? And so, like, you

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know, an example of that might be, like, testosterone. Right? We know that

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testosterone exogenously taken in large amounts helps

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with muscle mass. But, actually, like, the the amounts that you can

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manipulate with endogenous, physiologically is much smaller zones

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around that. So but is there a mechanism and is it in a dose response

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that might make sense to the I can kind of work around there? And thirdly,

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like, is that data ideally in humans

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or if we're looking at animal research primates that are most similar to humans to

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underlying mechanism. And if you can tick those, then it becomes a cost benefit

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analysis. Right? What is the cost financially or time

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wise, and what's the potential benefit I might get out of it?

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And is it worth a try if it's safe?

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So, you know, when you'd look at the at the ski and the snowboard, obviously,

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there's different mechanics related to

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becoming an elite, athlete, and and

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you use a different, you know, maybe a lot of balancing,

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maybe a lot of core. When you go into it to

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an athlete that's in a sport that maybe is not

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something you've covered before, how how do you kind of walk through alright. Let me

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understand. You know, I remember that there were football players who were taking, like,

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ballet and, like, dance classes, you know, which now, like, you see a wide receiver

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and they're like, you know, they're like touching their toes against the,

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the the line or you we got a guy who, trains hockey,

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players up in up in Ottawa, and, like, he's all about, like, just, like, the

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shift. And, so so how do you kinda

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diagnose that and maybe, like, you you have such a unique opportunity to kinda,

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like, take things from different sports and say, hey. I know what you need to

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do, and I know how to, like, optimize those parts. Totally. I would say most

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of my career, my early career, and even now is taking stuff from one sport

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that I learned and contextualizing it and fitting to it to a new

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sport. Certainly, I I've stolen my entire career and continue to do

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that on a on a daily basis. So I think number 1, you have to

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understand what it takes to win, like a sports demand

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analysis, a gold medal profile. What are you trying to develop in said

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sport or in your life in general? But having an understanding of what the

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big picture looks like, the term in British sport is used, what it's what it

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takes to win model. But that that will break down technically, tactically,

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physiologically, psychologically. What are the traits, skills,

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capacities, that I need to be able to develop in an athlete to give

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them a shot of winning? And so I think you start with their and so

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every sport you'll go into, you kind of learn. You'll look at, like, you know,

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history from research. You'll talk to tons of coaches, talk to tons of athletes.

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What what data does the individual sports team have on that sport? So what have

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other successful athletes done in the past? And you can kinda build up this. It's

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a jigsaw puzzle. You don't have all the pieces, but you get enough to see

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the kind of the shape of the picture that you wanna create or wanna help

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create. So I start start definitely with, with

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what it takes to win. And then then there's about like

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like assessing where you're at, where do you wanna get to, and how you're

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bridging the gap. It's not, like, overly complex in that kind of way in that

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you've got depending on the particular sport. You know, some professional sports

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teams, it might be a win now. I've got, like, one season to develop this.

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I've got one off season. And so you it's a very short tier period to

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develop that. Or in Olympic sports, typically, I've got a 4 year

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quad or maybe even 8 years if it's a development athlete to build this long

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term plan. So you can start layering in the pieces of development. Okay. Let's build

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strength. Let's just build strength in general to start with. Let's

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build a big cardiovascular base if we need to do that. And then

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as we get further or closer to that goal better profile, we can bring

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in elements. I'd like to bring in elements of sports specificity.

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That's not necessarily the idea of, like, training exactly like the sport looks in the

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gym because that doesn't always transfer, that well, but it is.

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Hey. Like, you know, an alpine race, Wengen, I think, is the

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longest race in men's alpine skiing. It's close to 3 miles. It's

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about 3 minutes. I think we need 3 minute endurance

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capacity in isometric, you know, 2 to 3 times your body weight

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squatting. Okay. Let's build capacities like that in the gym first.

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And then you can kind of like so you've got, like, this base of health

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and foundation. This kind of then a a layer of sports specificity.

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And then you can kinda think about your performance tactics on the top of the

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pyramid. What are the things that are gonna work for this individual, a particular warm

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up routine, particular food strategies, particular sleep strategies,

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or maybe advanced stuff like when I was at US ski Ski and

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Snowboard, one of the camps, we did a partnership with Cirque du

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Soleil. We took a lot of the free skiing snowboarders. We took them out to

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Cirque du Soleil for 3 days. They did trampot

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wars. They did all these acrobatic stuff. Right? They twist and spin in

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some of the free skiing snowboarding sports. And so, like, to learn from

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these, like, you know, what is an exceptional in a similar space, but different on

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how they approach that. And so but you look at these performance strategies on top.

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This is Pete Moore. I wanna let you in on a little secret. There's this

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company called Promotion Vault, and what they do is they give out rewards

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from retailers that allow you to incentivize your

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members without having to do zero down and 1 month

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free or giving away shakes or giving away T shirts. What

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you wanna do is build a rewards program that lasts, that

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people value, and that doesn't discount your own products and services.

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So here's the deal. There's something called rewards vault. The rewards

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vault is going to allow a member to set up their own profile.

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They are going to answer questions. You are gonna get those answers. You're gonna be

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able to target those members, and you're gonna reward them inside your

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club, inside your spa, and outside of the club, and outside

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of the spa to get them to become loyal, to get them to

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pay their monthly dues, and to be rewarded properly

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for the actions. A lot of companies are cutting back on rewards. You shouldn't

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be. Promotion Vault's your answer. Trust me. This is

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real. When I

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watch games sometimes, I watch, like, a, English Premier League game, and it'll tell

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you, you know, how many miles the guy ran, right, through throughout the

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game. The data and the metrics are becoming more and

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more transparent and accessible. Do you see

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that as that's great? Or do you see it as like,

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hey. You kinda like k. You kinda like going like, piercing the veil

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a little too much. You know, like, I I don't want I don't want the

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guy I'm training who's like a striker, you know, playing for Man City. Like,

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do I really want people to know, like, you know, all of his, like, stats

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and his, you know, oxygen levels and, you know, blood pressure

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that that may be, like, somewhere accessible through, like, a premium, you

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know, service? And now it's like like, stay away from my athlete. You

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know, look at the performance. Don't, like, datatize like

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my guys. Is that is that a fear, or is that like a is that

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like a media opportunity or education opportunity? I

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think I I personally am not,

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not scared of the data, or I don't think there's a negative. I think it's

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the application of how you utilize it. Collecting data

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is neither good nor bad. It's neutral. Right? There there isn't

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thing. It's how you apply it, what you utilize, how do you, you know,

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work with an individual about that. Like, you know, I'm wearing an Oura

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ring and, like, you know, sleep data. Some athletes might wanna know their sleep before

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the day of a competition. Some may not. And, you know, it's up to the

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support staff, the coaching, and the individual athlete to know how they

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want to utilize that data. I think on the

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plus side, it's mostly beneficial if used well. But

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I think there's a big discrepancy in the elite sport

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space around just data for collecting data. Let's say, Myles running

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soccer. I'm I'm not an expert in that space, but height doesn't

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correlate with a lot of performance. Messi might be the the, you know, the the

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least distance traveled, but the most important player. And so your metrics

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have to be to walk around a lot, and and good for him. You know?

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Like, you're just waiting for the opportunity and not Exactly. So your your metric

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your metric doesn't matter. Right? You need to measure what matters. Maybe

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there are certain, like, types of midfielders where it's really important to measure distant

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capacity run and things like that. But for the most part, I think you have

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to individualize it. What's important to the person, measure what's matter,

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and then refer it back to them and their coach and others in a way

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that's gonna make sense to them make the optimal change, which might be not at

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all. It might be high level, or it might be the full detail, and I

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think that was individualized. So so gambling would be bad,

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and education and optimization would be good in in your

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you know, like, I saw Elon Musk said, like, there's a 10% chance that, you

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know, AI is is very destructive, you know, or maybe

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20%, he said. It's not 0. Yeah. It's it's it's not it's

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not 0 for sure. And I think whether it's whether it's artificial

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intelligence or or human interpretation of that data, it's still

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the the emphasis on, like, the level of intelligence that is being used, it's not

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a blanket. There is intelligence. It's like you have to actually apply intelligently

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to be intelligent. So so there are some athletes that I see,

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like, Djokovic, where, he might tell you a couple things that he's

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doing, but he's not giving you, like, his full, you know, workout or, you know,

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physical or mental, you know, preparation. Do is

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is part of that, for intimidation purposes?

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Is part of that for, you know, I found something and nobody's found yet? What

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what do you think is, like like, the the yin yang on that?

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I think it's individual on on different athletes. I think there's

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there's an element of mesquite mystique about it that creates intimidation.

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There's a a component. In my experience, having worked across all the different athletes,

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and I've been fortunate to work with a lot of Olympic gold medalists, like people

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like Mikaela Shiffrin winning a skier in the world. There's very little

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secrets that they're doing that are completely different. What they do is apply

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most of the things slightly better than everyone else, and they are more

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consistent in their application. There are some things where you're gaining

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competitive advantage. In elite sports, generally, for, like, 6 to

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12 months, you find something that's a new way, something,

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you know, sometimes it might be something like supplementation.

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An example would be like beetroot juice, which has got nitric oxide

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in the early, you know, early 2000, in outer two

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competitions. Some teams were on that earlier than others. Ketones were another

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ones in the Tour de France. You find this, but it's, like, very short lived.

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You're finding these sort of incremental changes at US Ski and Snowboard. We did virtual

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reality for the 2018 Olympics, which was a new innovation in that sport.

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But they're relatively small, and they aren't they're the cherries on top.

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They are not the cake. Gotcha. The the cake and the 95% and

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actually mostly what matters, is is

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is the basics and and executing well. I think where elite

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athletes, like, don't want you to share is they partly want that

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mystique, and they partly wanna feel there's something special that they're doing that no one

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else would. It gives them a psychological competitive advantage as much as Understood.

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Yeah. So are there a lot of athletes that work out

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and allow people to to log in and work out with them either through

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Tonal or through, you know, Zoom or or, like, if you wanna train like

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LeBron, like, does he say, okay, for the next 30 days, you know, I'm gonna

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be up at 5 in the morning. Join me. I'm gonna put my FaceTime on.

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It's gonna cost you, you know, x 1,000 of dollars to train. I haven't seen

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that yet. I just wonder why. Or is it not something they

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wanna commit to or have, like, exposed? Yeah. I

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I think it's more I I would say it's less about the exposing what

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they're doing and more about the commitment and time. When you're at that

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very top level, you're you're trying

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to optimize your life around your performance on on the

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basketball court, on the ski hill, on the football field, whatever it might be, and

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therefore committing to something like that. Like, you know, I know Mike

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Mancias, strainer for LeBron quite well. Like, they they have a a

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scare. They're up at 6 in the morning. They're doing the but but they have

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to modify stuff because of press influencers, because of others. And

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so that maintaining that adaptability. I think it's less about exposing

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and more it's just not logistically easy. Gotcha. Gotcha. So let's

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talk about Tonal and, you know, what what you've done there

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and how you feel connected fitness is

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gonna continue to to be part of, you know,

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the the entire ecosystem, or how you see maybe

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that morphing into, hey. I'm gonna give you a prescription. I want you to do

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total 3 days a week here. I want you to do this in a park.

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I want you to do TRX. I want you to kinda use me as, like,

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a weapon and not necessarily, like, I want you to be only tonal or I

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want you to be only, you know, lifetime fitness or, you know, pick pick a

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brand. I feel like there's a lot of choices that that people can

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make that might actually round them out in different ways

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that it's not like us versus them. Yeah. Yeah. So

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my role at Tonal, I'm I'm super fortunate. I get to work across kind of

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3 spaces. So my team works across, like, curriculum development, exercises, sets,

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reps, things that you'll see on the train over the coaches are doing and and

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get to program and work on that side. Get to work on product development, so

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new features. So, like, we just, recently launched this something

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called training effect metrics where essentially every single workout that

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you do is categorized how much, like, hypertrophy stimulus was that, how

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much movement quality stimulus, how much, like, functional strength stimulus. So

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sort of the around there. It's almost like think about, like, step

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tracking almost for, for weight lifting, not just in sets and

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reps, but how much stimulus for a particular outcome did you get. And so

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get to work across product development. And I also get to work in this, like,

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forward thinking innovation research, like, you know, where

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is where is fitness going in the next 3 to 5 years? Not in the

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next 3 to 5 months, but next 3 to 5 years. And how do we

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make sure that, you know, the tone is aligned to be to be there? So

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it's a really interesting space to get to play around. My like,

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the I'd like, you know, big pieces. People need to on

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average, we need to exercise more. I don't think anyone's gonna

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disagree that they're like particularly in the US population, but western populations in general.

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Like, we don't really do enough cardio. Like, I think the CDC

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or yeah. I think CDC would say something like, you know, maybe about 50%

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of the population self report they meet their cardio guidelines and less than 30%

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meet the strength guidelines. That's strengthening exercises twice a week.

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And self report, we know is inflated. Yeah. And so that's only a third of

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people. So we need people to do more. I think the evidence that it is

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beneficial for health span, for lifespan, just for general function

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is overwhelming. So I am all about where do we need

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to meet people and how do we make it more engaging and more consistent.

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And so for some people, like me, yeah, that's a 100% total in my

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house. For some people that might be going to see a personal trainer in their

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gym once or twice a week and then doing something in their home once or

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twice a week because that's easier. I've got, you know, young kids, a busy job.

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I I go on kind of things. Some people, it might be, you know, working

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out one way when they're at home and another way when they're traveling.

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Some people, it might be seasonal. Hey. I really like to get outside and

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run-in summer when it's nice, but if you live in Park City, like me in

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November and it's snowing, like, hey. I can't think. So I think

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we as fitness and health professionals have to

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have to be aware of, like, how do we fit to make it more engaging

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and more consistent for the average population? What the fitness industry is

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great at is people who are already doing fitness, we make it even

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better and easier for them. And I think as we we need to

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grow the pie as an industry and how do we make it more inclusive for

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more people. Yeah. So if we kinda rewind back

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to COVID, I'm assuming you were one of the people that said, hey. This digital

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and the technology, that's gonna be a piece of the puzzle, but the bricks and

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mortar isn't going away, and and and the in person is not going away.

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So how were you able to maybe have conversations with people,

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you know, if I liken it to, like, Peloton, you know, so they we're gonna

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have, like, a 1000000000 members or whatever the guy the CEO said at the time,

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which is Big bigger than Apple. Yeah. Yeah. Bigger than Apple. I'm like, well, this

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is pretty easy to do, and it's got a cash register on it. So I

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I I I'm assuming that's not a great analogy, and I told them that

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actually when I when I met with them a long time ago. But were you

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kind of like a, like like a stability force or, like, saying,

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hey. Look. This is gonna pop for a while, but, like, it's gonna come back

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to normal. And when it does come back to normal, let's just make sure that

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we're, like, best in class. And that total is here, and it's

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not a fad, and it's not something that people just did during COVID, which

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unfortunately a lot of us are connected fitness companies, you know, are are no

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longer around. So how how were you able to kinda calibrate that just given your

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experience? Yeah. Like, I would say it's it

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like, in some ways, it's quite tough. Right? You're in this once in

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a lifetime, thankfully. We never wanna go back to a pandemic, but once in a

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lifetime kind of things where you've got, like, a very captive audience. We

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were, like, a year old company at the time. Like, been in product market for

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a year, and you're selling these things like no one's business. You you know,

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you can't keep up with demand. Supply chains are tricky. You've got venture

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capitals that are literally giving you, you know, crazy valuations and and throwing

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money at you to scale as quickly as you can. It's almost like you have

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to take advantage of that while it's happening. If you don't, you will die,

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and and someone else will. So I think you have to take capital of it.

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I think what we we were fortunate as a company, and Ali, our our

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founder and CTO, now is is kind of like, think. He

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built this because we want to help people improve their lives. We're not an

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entertainment device. It like, right? Nothing wrong with Peloton. I love their business.

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Like, they're actually doing relatively well off their risk earnings call. Like, nothing wrong.

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No slight on them. They're in entertainment. Right? Their their idea is taking

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fitness, making it more entertaining, and people will do it. Not not bad

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model, but not Tonal's model. Tonal model wants entertainment or engagement, but

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we're about outcomes. Right? We wanna improve people's strengths, improve people's

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lives. Like, and we can get to track a lot of that. And so that's

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always come from Ali because of what how he founded the product. It was about

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his life and reversing type 2 diabetes for himself and, like, you

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know, losing £45 or whatever he he did. And so that's always been core

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in the company. It's certainly, like, I'm not gonna lie, the last 18

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you know, previous maybe 18 months or the last 6 months or so, but,

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yeah, you had to recalibrate after the business, after the the the

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crazy time of COVID, the escalation in scale, and then a sink back

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down to what's, like, a sustainable business. We're super fortunate that we've been

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able to grow every single month we've been in existence. Never had a

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month where we have declined. And we'll be able to do that, like, partly because

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our churn is so low. Our churn is, like, you know, sub 1%

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monthly, like, industry level. Like Nice. I don't know, half of Peloton's

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maybe. And Peloton's like the industry leader, and we're probably about half of

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that. And so we and it's not just people keep us

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paying us. It's people keep using us. I think average engagement

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after 3 years is still more than twice a week. 2.5 times

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mean after 3 years or something in that kinda range. And so you got

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this sticky product, that you're able to ride that out. But, like, yeah,

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you have to recalibrate that, you know, how

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what what does the future look like and where do we play? And we think

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the home fitness strength market is still actually relatively

422
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undersaturated. If you think about Peloton, if I said

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50% meet the meet the demand of of

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of aerobic and and only, you know, 30% meet meet the demand of

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strength. Like, the the the saturation of the strength market is nowhere

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near what Peloton is in in the cardio market right now. So there's still a

427
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lot of opportunity in that and in adjacent spaces, whether that's, you

428
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know, within personal training gyms or in corporate wellness or

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in boutique fitness and all of these sort of auxiliary places where we have a

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great device that might might add a lot of value.

431
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This is Pete Moore. Here's the last tip for you of the podcast.

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00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:26,550
We are partnered up with a company called Higher Dose, higher

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00:26:26,550 --> 00:26:30,170
dose dot com. They are the leader in workout

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00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:33,925
recovery products, infrared technology, LED

435
00:26:33,925 --> 00:26:37,525
light masks, neck enhancers, and other

436
00:26:37,525 --> 00:26:41,225
products such as PMF mats and sauna blankets.

437
00:26:41,685 --> 00:26:45,205
If you have not gotten on the workout recovery train

438
00:26:45,205 --> 00:26:48,850
yet, your time and your stop is now. You

439
00:26:48,850 --> 00:26:52,390
gotta get these products in there before these workout recovery and spas

440
00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:56,450
end up saturating your market, having your members walk out of the club

441
00:26:56,450 --> 00:26:59,970
and going into one of their locations for $200 per

442
00:26:59,970 --> 00:27:03,515
month where they're paid 39 to you. Let's become an

443
00:27:03,515 --> 00:27:07,195
expert in workout recovery if we are already an authority in

444
00:27:07,195 --> 00:27:10,875
workouts. Higher dose, check it out. There's a

445
00:27:10,875 --> 00:27:14,460
wholesale code, and we look forward to helping

446
00:27:14,460 --> 00:27:18,140
you augment your products and services to meet the demands of

447
00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:21,840
your members. And, hey, let's get people happy, healthy,

448
00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:25,760
and sweating, and the recovery should be just as good as the workout.

449
00:27:28,995 --> 00:27:32,675
So so as we close out here, you do a lot of research and and

450
00:27:32,675 --> 00:27:36,195
you publish articles, and reports. You talk about rewards

451
00:27:36,195 --> 00:27:39,875
based, you know, strategies, and

452
00:27:39,875 --> 00:27:43,475
also you you you you're you're also talking about, like, the science versus the

453
00:27:43,475 --> 00:27:47,310
fitness. So can you can you give us a little bit of sound bites on

454
00:27:47,530 --> 00:27:51,370
recent research you've done, maybe a couple of moments that that you've had as

455
00:27:51,370 --> 00:27:54,830
part of that? Yeah. Absolutely. So

456
00:27:55,210 --> 00:27:58,810
I got I got a really interesting research study, but the results are coming

457
00:27:58,810 --> 00:28:02,365
out next week, and so I can't talk about until then. But if this comes

458
00:28:02,725 --> 00:28:06,565
do an update. Yeah. It publishes after then. So some really, really interesting about

459
00:28:06,565 --> 00:28:10,325
time efficient training and ways that we can get hopefully better if the results

460
00:28:10,485 --> 00:28:14,210
it's 3rd party independent research, so I don't get to control it, but better

461
00:28:14,210 --> 00:28:17,970
results in less time. So I'm really excited about that. But I think the the

462
00:28:17,970 --> 00:28:20,930
the biggest sort of the one of the we did a study a couple of

463
00:28:20,930 --> 00:28:24,630
years ago out of Rhode Island University, doctor Christy

464
00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:28,615
Ward, Christy Ward. And she looked

465
00:28:28,615 --> 00:28:32,295
at, 45 year old average so 45

466
00:28:32,295 --> 00:28:35,975
middle aged females, new to strength training, and put, like, 8 weeks

467
00:28:35,975 --> 00:28:39,755
training, half on tonal, half not on tonal, you know, on traditional selectercise.

468
00:28:40,055 --> 00:28:43,840
And, like, the reality is is outcomes were fairly similar in that strength.

469
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,040
Like, both made strength changes. 8 weeks is not a lot of time to make

470
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,800
body composition changes, but both there. But what what they saw is over the

471
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,860
8 weeks, the on using traditional, gym equipment,

472
00:28:54,394 --> 00:28:58,154
the engagement or the enjoyment scale dropped every single

473
00:28:58,154 --> 00:29:01,914
week down to significantly different at the end of 8 weeks. And so what, like,

474
00:29:01,914 --> 00:29:04,955
kind of hints to me is, like, those people probably wouldn't have carried on if

475
00:29:04,955 --> 00:29:08,790
they weren't on a research study and certainly would have stopped. Tonal stayed

476
00:29:09,330 --> 00:29:12,630
consistent enjoyment from 1st week to last week. No.

477
00:29:13,170 --> 00:29:16,770
People are more likely to enjoy it. And so that's really interesting to from us

478
00:29:16,770 --> 00:29:20,530
to look at an enjoyment because, ultimately, it's about engagement, enjoying

479
00:29:20,530 --> 00:29:23,895
the exercise that you're doing so you stay consistent. So so if you if you

480
00:29:23,895 --> 00:29:27,415
if you go down a layer on that, are you able to figure out is

481
00:29:27,415 --> 00:29:30,855
that because, you know, they felt like it was 1 on 1 and there was

482
00:29:30,855 --> 00:29:34,635
nobody else around? Was it the user interface? Is it the,

483
00:29:34,935 --> 00:29:38,360
you know, some some rewards or, you know, someone talking to you? What what what

484
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,200
do you think the the key traits are? We've done quite a lot

485
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,560
of UX research around it, and it's it's the fact that we're full stack or

486
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,160
closed loop in that the hardware, software, and

487
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,975
content are all integrated and all caught to each other. So you lift,

488
00:29:52,975 --> 00:29:56,575
you get immediate feedback on that, and you get coached about it. You'll

489
00:29:56,575 --> 00:30:00,275
get form feedback. You can watch videos. And it's so it's this very self contained,

490
00:30:00,735 --> 00:30:04,575
almost like a, you know, slightly walled garden like Apple in some way Sure. That

491
00:30:04,575 --> 00:30:08,240
you have this kind of full loop system, and that's super engaging. Yes.

492
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,020
We have reward streaks, badges, particularly useful

493
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,000
earlier in people's journeys, fitness journeys. And then we have, like,

494
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,679
deeper deeper dives when they're deeper data dives when they're later in their

495
00:30:19,679 --> 00:30:23,405
journey. Okay. Track my volume over time. How many strength sets have I

496
00:30:23,405 --> 00:30:27,085
done this week? Am I progressing in my overall strength score? And so you see

497
00:30:27,085 --> 00:30:30,605
this idea of, like, okay. Get early reward type systems, and then

498
00:30:30,605 --> 00:30:34,445
later building that sort of, like, competency and engagement with the

499
00:30:34,445 --> 00:30:38,210
data. Well, what would you say as as a as a

500
00:30:38,210 --> 00:30:41,890
tangent to that? If I'm doing 20 minutes of strength training in the

501
00:30:41,890 --> 00:30:45,510
gym versus doing 20 minutes on tonal, obviously,

502
00:30:45,650 --> 00:30:49,250
my form is gonna be perfect on tonal. I'm gonna get

503
00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:53,034
reinforcement on that. How much of a difference does that make in in

504
00:30:53,034 --> 00:30:56,795
in, you know, muscle gain, in, you know, in in

505
00:30:56,795 --> 00:31:00,315
in cosmetic? You know, like, if I if I'm doing it by

506
00:31:00,315 --> 00:31:04,075
myself, I'm not I'm not optimizing the the the

507
00:31:04,075 --> 00:31:07,740
the set. Is that is that part of it maybe? I I think

508
00:31:07,740 --> 00:31:10,539
there's elements. Like, you know, all depends on the individuals. I don't wanna say you

509
00:31:10,539 --> 00:31:13,980
can't get, like, great gains with traditional free weights. That would be, you know, foolish

510
00:31:13,980 --> 00:31:17,820
to say and not truthful. You can, but it depends on where you are on

511
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:21,195
your strength training journey, how well you execute the exercises.

512
00:31:21,735 --> 00:31:25,495
You know? Obviously, you know, if you're a a Olympia bodybuilder, you

513
00:31:25,495 --> 00:31:28,215
can lift really well. If you're a first time novice and you go in and

514
00:31:28,215 --> 00:31:31,655
you don't have a coach, like, you're probably not getting the benefits out of it,

515
00:31:31,655 --> 00:31:35,015
and therefore, we can help with coaching, with form feedback, with

516
00:31:35,015 --> 00:31:38,690
videos, with coaching queues, with data around how we do

517
00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:42,450
that. The other element is, like, when you go into a gym, and,

518
00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:45,590
again, nothing wrong with that. But, like, you go in the gym for 20 minutes,

519
00:31:45,809 --> 00:31:49,515
like, how much of that time is actually working? Like, you know, you don't

520
00:31:49,515 --> 00:31:53,035
own the gym. Right? You don't have every single piece of equipment. Every single dumbbell

521
00:31:53,035 --> 00:31:56,235
is not in theirs. If you go in on Monday night at 6 o'clock on

522
00:31:56,235 --> 00:31:59,915
January 2nd, it's probably you're probably waiting around for most of that

523
00:31:59,915 --> 00:32:03,740
20 minutes. Where we have a lot of our efficiency built in is,

524
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,960
hey. I can do, you know, a bench press and then a row, which is

525
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,740
an antagonistic superset. It's a very, you know, time efficient training technique,

526
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840
and no one's gonna jump on the bench press while I'm doing my row. Right?

527
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,255
Like, I change one arm position or or don't even change an arm position, just

528
00:32:18,255 --> 00:32:21,775
move the bench slightly, and then I can switch between those. And so you have

529
00:32:21,775 --> 00:32:25,535
this, like, flexibility within the time schedule, which makes it huge. And then

530
00:32:25,535 --> 00:32:29,135
we have, like, dynamic weight mode. We can do eccentric overload or

531
00:32:29,135 --> 00:32:32,980
change these more advanced training techniques, which might optimize training

532
00:32:32,980 --> 00:32:36,820
even more effectively. Awesome. So so in closing here, you got any,

533
00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:41,059
quotes that you live by or, you know, sayings that are

534
00:32:41,059 --> 00:32:44,755
like Troyisms? I'm trying to think. I

535
00:32:44,835 --> 00:32:48,195
like, I love the I think it's it's been contributed to a bunch of different

536
00:32:48,195 --> 00:32:50,835
people, so I don't know who said it first. But I love the the only

537
00:32:50,835 --> 00:32:54,360
competitive advantage is losing learning faster than everyone else.

538
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,880
And I think that's that's something that I live within my elite sport career. Like,

539
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,640
we're constantly what won in 2014 didn't win in 2018 in the

540
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,320
Olympic games. And, you know, performance is always improving. And I think as

541
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,679
we're in this age of fitness, I think actually learning faster about what works for

542
00:33:08,679 --> 00:33:12,495
your body, how you utilize data, and and kind of things, it it rings pretty

543
00:33:12,495 --> 00:33:16,195
true there from an individual and also from a business perspective. Awesome.

544
00:33:16,415 --> 00:33:19,455
Well, Troy, thanks for coming on and giving us a a bit of a tutorial

545
00:33:19,455 --> 00:33:23,190
here. It's been a pleasure. And, performance innovation,

546
00:33:23,730 --> 00:33:27,410
we're gonna hear about some new things coming out, on your research, and, check

547
00:33:27,410 --> 00:33:31,170
out Tonal. And, we will also see you in the background of,

548
00:33:31,410 --> 00:33:35,250
of elite athletes getting medals. So thanks for, for everything you've done for

549
00:33:35,250 --> 00:33:37,495
the industry. Thanks so much.