Episode #552: Fletcher Pilates Around the Globe-Kyria Sabin on Education, Expansion, and Community Impact

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1:03 This is Pete Moore on Halo Talks NYC. I have the pleasure of bringing one of the most esteemed platforms in the Pilates space coming out of Tucson, Arizona, Fletcher Pilates. Kyrgios Sabin, who we met one time at a studio event with BFS, is joining us today. We're going to talk about the growth of Pilates. We're going to talk about her international licensing program. And we're going to talk about how awesome it is for Pilates as a return on time investment. I'd say it's the, most prolific to see changes in the mirror and to feel the changes in your body in the shortest amount of time. So, Curia, welcome to our show. Thank you, Pete. Happy to be here. So, so this started with, with Ron Fletcher back in '93. Do you wanna just give everyone a little bit of the history of the Pilates and how this kind of has become your lifelong career and vision for the future? Sure. I started studying with Ron Fletcher in 1991 and, had no intention of teaching Pilates. I was working in the art world and planning to go to law school and focus on art law. So I was on a completely different track and, always into fitness and movement and, went to Braun's studio in Los Angeles when I lived there. I was, directing an art gallery and caught the bug and fell in love with the work and and went to a workshop with Ron. And he said, you should teach

2:34 this work. And I said, I'm not gonna teach this work. I'm I'm headed to law school. And and and at that point, no one knew what Pilates was. In fact, it wasn't even called Pilates. It was called body contrology. And, but he planted the seed, and, I called him up a few days later, and I said, if I were to teach this work, how would I go about it? Because no no schools existed at the time. And, so he basically gave me this he pieced together an education going to London and New York and Houston and Los Angeles and, studying with different people and learning very specific things. And so that was my introduction, and I had Ron Fletcher, as my teacher and mentor. And, he studied with Jessup Pilates, for two decades from 1948 to '67 when Joe passed away. And, I now have the privilege of of running his lineage and running his school.

3:31 And you started out as a a Duke grad I did. Then became a, a certified massage therapist. So, as you were going through these machinations in in your mind about, you know, where where is this going, and and a lot of people thought, you know, Pilates, they didn't really understand what that was. You know, what what kind of put you over the edge? Was, one, was it kind of the ability to be taught, you know, under that type of, you know, master trainer that excited you? Was it did you do a couple classes and say, you know, this is something I've never experienced? What what was the what was the linchpin, if you will, for Yeah. Well, I was I was a client for almost a year and Gotcha. Noticed huge changes in my body. I was used to doing extreme everything. And, you know, whether it was running or swimming or or playing tennis, everything I did was, as as much as hard as I could get. And Okay.

4:27 And, when I studied with Ron, I realized that it was, you know, it's really the first introduction to, as an adult, to high quality movement and quality over quantity and, realized that the the results were much better. It's, you know, definitely more efficient in terms of time. So I had a call from, received a call from Karma Kienstler, who was one of the founding members of Kang and Ranch. And she was just starting a Pilates program in Tucson at the time. And I was planning my exodus from Los Angeles and wanting to go back to New York and and go to law school and get back into New York is my favorite place on Earth. And, and she said, would you come to Tucson for a couple of months and help me develop this Pilates program? And and I thought that's, you know, that's a great stepping stone to getting out of Los Angeles to sort of going into the next chapter, but I never intended to devote my life to this work. And I think that the real, for me, it was starting to teach. It was working with, one person at a time and realizing the impact that I could have. And and I was really the only person teaching Pilates outside of Canyon Ranch in Arizona.

5:42 Gotcha. And then, you know, as you've looked at some of these opportunities, we talked just before we got on here that you're, you know, Fletcher Pilates exists now in, Korea, in different parts of The US, under a licensing program. Was that something that you, proactively did, or was it more of a response to, you know, people that have experiences with you to say, you know, we need this here. How can you make that happen? It it was both organic and proactive. I when I first opened a studio, I was just trying to find Pilates teachers, to to fill the need. And I realized that I really wanted to develop high level teachers, and, so we started a school. And, that was with Ron's Wessing, but it wasn't really his, his lineage of the work. And over several years, he felt that the Pilates teachers should learn should learn through apprenticeship. So you should basically live under the wing of someone.

6:46 And when they deem you fit to teach, they they sort of put you out on the floor and, convinced him that that wasn't the way of the world today. And, his work would basically, go away when he died. And so he agreed to, look at a program that that I and and several of his teachers put together, and he was very much involved in the development of the program. And after we developed the program, we had people coming in from Asia, from Europe, from South America wanting to study his lineage of the work. And and and what we realized is that we could reach many more people if we sent teachers to those countries. And it's cost prohibitive and, you know, really difficult for for a lot of people to leave for for any length of time to to study this work. So that's it is it was, intentional, but it wasn't I didn't decide, you know, I want this work to be in Brazil, or I want this work to be in Canada or wherever it is in the world. It was, very much the interest came, and then we worked with the teachers over a course period of time. And then, eventually, you know, gave them the right to to license the the the program. You know, you look at Pilates versus, I can become a personal trainer probably over a weekend. I can learn TRX and get a certification, you know, over a couple days as well.

8:09 Can you just talk about and maybe, reiterate what it takes if somebody becomes a Pilates instructor, especially a Fletcher Pilates instructor, how much time and intensity has gone into that? Sure. Well, it's we we first want our students to have experienced the work. It was it was really amusing to me because when I first opened the school, Pilates was sort of a new thing. And it was, you know, as it is now, it was sort of, considered trendy. And people would call up, and they'd say, I wanna be a Pilates teacher. And they'd often sometimes say, I wanna be a Pilates teacher and, or some version of that. And I'd say, well, have you, you know, have you experienced the work first? And oftentimes, they hadn't. They wanted to go from, you know, just off the street to becoming a teacher. And so we insist that anyone who wants to go through our program, experience the work for at least a a year on a consistent basis so they get the the work in their bodies. And, the first step to going through our program is is the mat work program. So, they complete the mat work program, which allows them to teach mat work in gyms and, studios and parks. And, the thing I love about that is that they start teaching before they may they commit to going through the the comprehensive program. And then the comprehensive program takes about a year to go through. So all told, it's it's probably a year and a half, and then we have advanced continuing education, which is another year.

9:41 So to be a full fledged Fletcher teacher is is about two years. Gotcha. And how how many Fletcher certified instructors are there worldwide right now? Well, different levels of of teachers. I would say they're they're probably between five hundred and seven fifty between the mat work teachers and and the the, licensed providers and and the fully certified teachers. This is Pete Moore. I wanna let you in on a little secret. There's this company called Promotion Vault, and what they do is they give out rewards from retailers that allow you to incentivize your members without having to do zero down and one month free or giving away shakes or giving away t shirts.

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11:12 You know, as you've seen, I just read something today that, ClassPass, announced their top twenty twenty four workouts, and Pilates is number one, on the trends and, and usage and and demand. When you look at some of these groups like Club Pilates, you know, Solid Core, SLT, how does that make you feel about, you know, the exclusivity of Pilates versus now the mass market appeal? One is like, hey. Like, this this is as big as I as I wanted it to be or it's getting there. At the same time, you know, maybe there's some things that you like. And there might be some shortcuts here or things that are not, you know, how Joseph Pilate or Ron Fletcher, you know, the efficacy of it maybe is is, you know, maybe, like, you know, not as as as as the technique is not what it exactly should be, but is that okay? Is it not okay? You know, give me somebody who's been around the industry, sometimes you're like, I like how the industry's evolved, the price point. There's no $9 Pilates, thankfully. Right? No one's commoditized it. At the same time, now it's like mass market. It might be you're not using the term properly or you're where where are you at in that kind of yin yang of No. Well, at first, when when Club Pilates started, I, you know, I I I have to admit I took issue with it, you know, bringing

12:43 12 bodies into a room without a lot of preparation and getting them, through, a workout primarily on one piece of equipment. But but I think there are some very good club Pilates teachers. And in fact, some of our teachers, who've got been through our program are teaching for club Pilates. And so I think that as businesses like that have developed, they've they've, refined, their their, methodology. They're they've refined their programs of teaching. And the first, you know, the first rule for any business dealing with human bodies is do no harm. And so, you know, my concern was first, are we gonna see a lot of entries coming out of these group reformer classes, and is that gonna give Pilates a bad name? That is happening to some extent, but it's not as as, widespread as I thought it would be.

13:43 So I I do think that people who, want to learn Pilates at, say, a deeper, more comprehensive level, whether it's a teacher or a client, oftentimes, the the Club Pilates entree is is a good stepping stone to that. So, we've had several of our clients come to us and say, you know, I've I've been going to club Pilates or I've been going to this other group or former class for, a year or whatever. And, and I wanna take it to the next level. And so, I think there are as with anything, I think it's you know, there are pluses and minuses. Mhmm. Bill, we, we we teach a a business school class. We started doing that during COVID.

14:29 And I I I prefer and I I want people to learn, during a live format. I I don't necessarily wanna tape it and then let them, you know, consume it because I don't know if they're gonna fully appreciate what, you know, I'm trying to educate them on. As you see the proliferation of, you know, now there's Pilates, you know, reformers that are going to the home and there's, you know, a video screen and you're doing, you know, tape classes. You know, obviously, you got the injury component to it and and the fact that people might not be, you know, doing the exercises the way, you know, they would be if they were, you know, had a a private or semi private. Are you sometimes concerned about that? Or, you know, as long as Pilates is getting out there, that they'll they'll they'll find their path. And would you is that something you would wanna play in? Or do you say, look. I'm I'm I've got a fine line of how I wanna do things? Well, I think that COVID, you know, gave us the ability to teach, from a distance and teach online, and there are definitely benefits to it. I won't work with anyone who I haven't worked with in person first. So, once we establish a program and if they have a home studio or they're on vacation at their second home or or wherever in the world, I'll work with them. But it's I I consider it supplemental. Mhmm. So to start with someone online, I think, is, it's difficult. It's it's, not only in terms of really understanding their body from a 360 degree view, but it's also

16:02 I I think you you lose the energy. So I it's it's really become a luxury to work with people in person, both for the teacher and and for the the client or the student. And, ultimately and I have one client who, he always wants to give sort of a a numerical percentage to the benefits that he, receives from each experience. He says, I get about 75% when I work with you online, and I get about 90 plus percent when I work with you in person. And So I think there's there is a big difference. Yeah. From a standpoint of, you know, whether it's ClassPass, GymPass, and our wellness hub, some called, you know, eChimp has some called Wellpass.

16:46 People are bouncing around to a lot of different studios and modalities. If you were to if I was to put you on the spot, let's say, like, now, if I said to you, you know, do Pilates and do what other exercise or group exercise program per week, because you're not necessarily gonna do Pilates seven days a week. What what would be your go to either on flexibility or core that I should, you know, do a regimen of Pilates and what? Yeah. Yeah. I used to say Pilates and cardio. So I used to say because Pilates you know, even when you're an advanced mover, you do get your heart moving. But a combination of Pilates and cardio, and cardio is, obviously super important for the heart, for the circulation, and for the brain. And, and, you know, as in the past however many years, it's we all now know that that, strength training is is, super important, especially, for women who could, you know, be struggling with osteopenia, osteoporosis.

17:50 So it's, I try to include as much strength work in the Pilates programs that I teach. And, but there it isn't enough. And there needs to be the progressive overload, and and I so it needs to ideally, an ideal would be cardio five days a week, Pilates two to three days a week, and strength training two to three days a week. Got it. And then And the Pilates covers the the, you know, covers the flexibility and the balanced work. Yeah. I've done several Pilates classes, and, it's usually not the next day that I that I feel the muscles that have been used. It's usually the second day that I feel like I can't move as much, which is amazing, you know, after I get through that and and turn into a practice. You know, with the with the onset of all of the workout recovery, you know, technologies that are out there, we're involved with a company called, HigherDose, which has infrared saunas and and electromagnetic fields. Are there certain things that you've prescribed to your clients or that you use that, you know, feels like you get the best recovery or the best inflammation reduction or, you know, is a great Yeah. I I I'm very, you know, cognizant of scope and practice. And so I I share things without, you know, using the word prescribe or or strongly suggest. I really love, infrared saunas. I think that they, it's just, I've experienced infrared saunas on a regular basis. And I I think way more than the cold therapy, it has, a profound effect on my body.

19:22 So that that would be and and, you know, in terms of modalities, acupuncture to me is if you can find a really good acupuncturist, it's it's holistic much like Pilates is. And so, and massage therapy, deep, deep, deep tissue massage therapy. Mhmm. And then from a standpoint of you you kinda touched on this before, but if if you're in a class and it's a a semi private or or a group format, what do you think the right mix is, you know, participants or, instructors to members where you feel like people are getting the right oversight? So the way my studio works is we everyone starts with, private sessions, and we make them as affordable as we can. Three private sessions, and then we they can segue into semi private sessions, and, we work with four people at a time, so what we call a quartet.

20:18 And, sort sort of a play on words, c o r e t e t. And then, our group classes are no more than, say, 15 people. So we don't we don't ever work with, huge groups. I I work with a larger group at the university I teach, the dancers at the University of Arizona and, am instructing them to become, mat work teachers. And so that is a larger group. And when I go to conferences, I work with larger groups, but those are mainly teachers. This is Pete Moore. Here's the last tip for you of the podcast. We are partnered up with a company called Higher Dose, higher dose dot com. They are the leader in workout recovery products, infrared technology, LED light masks, neck enhancers, and other products such as PMF mats and sauna blankets.

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22:02 And, the last question I have here is, are there certain age groups that you've been, pleasantly surprised that have embraced Pilates? I feel like, you know, with my mom's age group, you know, that just resonates with them. They're not really as intimidated by, you know, a reformer or or a Cadillac or any kind of, you know, machine that maybe have a lot you know, it looks like there's a lot of apparatus that, you know, could be viewed as, you know, like going into a, you know, an evil amusement park, if you will. Yeah. So, are there you know, there's obviously a lot of kids that that are doing it now and athletes where, you know, before you'd never think that, like, football players would be doing, you know, Pilates, but they are. And they're doing dance classes and they're doing barre classes, you know, because of some of the movements that you need, to be successful.

22:55 So are there any any cohorts or moments that people that are running a Pilates studio right now that maybe they should try and find these little pockets of of demographics that they Yeah. I think that intuitive? Yeah. The demographic that, you know, tends to, go to a boutique fitness studio, whether it's Pilates, is, you know, it's it's women in their fifties and sixties. And, I really enjoy working with, younger people and older people. So I I work with the, Boys and Girls Clubs of Southern Arizona, and we're developing a Pilates program for them. And one of my passions is teaching, young people about their bodies and teaching them to respect their bodies and how their bodies are put together. And, my hope is that it it just that knowledge would, you know, maybe prevent, obesity, maybe prevent, drug abuse, maybe, maybe, you know, just that understanding of how the body is put together and how to move the body, could have a positive, ripple effect.

24:03 And then I love working with older people. My, my father who's 90, just turned 90, broke his hip. And, he reached out to me when we were on a family vacation over the summer, and he wanted me to develop a program for him. And, and I just you know, it's I what what I love is that people at any age can change their posture, can build strength, can improve their balance. And I think there's this idea that once you get to a certain age, it's just maintenance, and that's not so. Mhmm. That's not so. It's you know, people in their eighties and nineties can make huge improvements. So do you have any quotes for us, Kiria? Any quotes that, would be associated with you as a as a, you know, Kiria ism?

24:48 No. It's it's a quote from my teacher, Ron Fletcher, and it's on the, inside flap of his book. And it's movement is life and life is movement, and we get out of it what we put into it. And I I love that quote. Great. Well, appreciate you making that decision not to go to law school. I think Chatt GBT might take over some of the, lawyers in this country by, by just typing in what kind of letter you need. Mhmm. And, for the for the work that you've done, we think anything related to Pilates and getting people together is gonna help solve some of the goals that that we have is, you know, solving loneliness, diabetes, and obesity. So look forward to continue to watch your growth, getting people around the world to, to better understand and utilize Pilates. And, congrats on everything you guys have built. Thank you, Pete. Thank you so much.

25:39 Great.