Episode #578: Lessons in Effective Communication and Brand Equity for Private Equity Firms with Scott Markman

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0:48 It's easy to use. Go to the prospectwizard.com get a free 30 day trial. Talk to my boy Dave Gallen. He will get you all set up and let the leads flow based on the Wizard. Go get him. This is Pete Moore on HALO Talks NYC. I had the pleasure of having straight from Baltimore with some of my Emory brethren are from and maybe an ex girlfriend or two. Scott Mark me in the Monogram Group. We're going to riff about M A private equity and anything we fucking want to talk about. Good to meet you. Thanks for coming on the show. I'm here Pete. Thanks for having me on the podcast. Really appreciate it. Yeah. Awesome. So you know, take people through. Just as a background, you've worked with a number of private equity clients. You've done a lot of marketing for investment groups. You're also doing things with portfolio companies.

1:36 You and I have been in kind of concentric circles. So I'm glad we're, we're connected now. But just as background, just give a little bit of like what you've been working on and then we'll, we'll jump into some war stories. Sure. So a little bit of clarification. I was born and raised in Baltimore, so I'm a die hard Ozone Ravens guy. When I saw Pete on another podcast was wearing a big met shirt and so I told him I'd take the piss out of him about Steve Cohen blowing lots of money. But we'll get back to that later. But I've lived in Chicago since 1988 so big chunk bite adult life so you know, I can, as much as I love Baltimore, I self identify as Chicago and I love this place and it's, it's been home for a long time. I started my agency in 1990 so Sierra 36 and about six years in I got an opportunity to win a piece of business with a startup that ended up becoming like a colossal titan in private equity. And they're called Integrity Capital.

2:32 Sure. Walk into every, any private equity shop in America, from black, you know, Blackstone on down and say, I built the Antares Capital brand from scratch. Which is true. And I'm instantly credentialed because they're that big and accomplished and established. They have 80 billion under management, probably 600 employees, and they're a household name in this world. And so I'm blessed to have been. You know, I was at the ground floor. I helped to pick the damn name and the logo and all that in between. And I had a great client at that point, two guys, Dave Brackett and Dave Swanson, who were two of the 12 partners that founded it. And they were the guys that ran the marketing and all that good stuff. And what was kind of cool about it was, and I've told this to them to their face 100,000 times. They're kind of like class clowns who became bankers and made it just a ton of money.

3:22 But the reason I, you know, kind of lovingly say that is because they wanted us to do the kind of work that would a little bit tweak the nose. This very state market, this, banks, Merrill lynch, all that kind of stuff, and do it in a way that was meaningful, but that caught people's attention. So they challenged us for a long time to do the kind of work, and it was successful. So as a result, our name got passed around this growing category called private equity. Back then it was just a couple of firms doing some stuff. So our client count today is like 100 firms. That's awesome. ...

4:08 And you know, it's a frothing market. I mean, all these rollups, you know, you live in the world of fitness and, and related categories. HALO. I have to use the word halo. Thank you, sir. ... And in the world of HALO, there's a lot of roll ups going on with, with med spas and, and with fitness clubs and, and all stripes in between. And that is creating a massive addressable market for us because a lot of money is chasing roll ups in a variety of categories. Yeah, so, so you know, to, to, to start back you, you're in the 90s. In 1994 is when I started in banking and in 96 I was part of the private equity coverage. Oh Pete, before I forget, I saw your, your LinkedIn page that you started back in the day at Broccoli Moore. Yes.

4:59 Okay. They were our number two. ... Like oh, those guys are, you know, they don't like the plumbing supply business that nobody knows about Ferguson's in Pennsylvania, you know, but these guys, these guys own Gold's Gym. So you know, as you kind of thought about, because private equity for the people that are on listening to this and I talk about private equity all the time. It's basically just a couple people that get together and go and raise money from the colleges that they went to and pension funds and endowment funds and pool this capital and then go invest it on a hopefully discretionary basis. Where they call the capital versus these independent sponsors that should be called dependent sponsors because they're dependent on finding money is what I like to call them. But as you kind of worked with people and said what's your DNA and what's your approach? Because to win a deal in private equity there's a level of trust, there's a level of professionalism, there's a level of knowing your domain.

6:16 So how did you, how do you like approach it now versus like maybe when there weren't was as much competition, how do you stand out without being too gregarious? It's a great question. So a couple of macro comments I can make about the this world called private equity that you know, kind of gleaned over time. I am honored, we are honored, the agency to work for the smartest, most methodical. ... in this world to great effect.

7:23 That's how people make a lot of money. But in the world of brand applied or story or differentiation or all that kind of stuff, it's antithetical. And so getting some folks at times to move off the dimensions can take a lot of prodding. Now, we win some battles, we lose some battles. And I'm not gonna sleep over somebody just staying right down the fairway and being happy with that. That's fine. But it is our job as advisors and creatives and strategists to let people know what the opportunities are and where the gold lay and let them opt in or not. You know, you can't make everybody a gold prospector. ... I can't remember the guy's name, you know, from Texas, right?

8:12 One guy and his minion of, you know, deal guys. And then I'd put them in a PowerPoint slide and take it to Tyco and see if Tyco wanted to buy it. We made some deals that way. But as private equity funds have realized, like, hey, I'm in a competitive market, you know, I'm putting out capital. Um, and I'm. And I'm up against like some real institutionalized businesses now, where Leonard Green used to be Leonard Green, and you know, like 10 other guys. Right now it's like probably a thousand people, and they got 20 different funds. And TPG used to be. I can't remember the guy's name, you know, from Texas, right? One guy and his minion of, you know, deal guys. And now it's like, you know, tpg, like, that's like, what fund are you working with?

9:02 So how do the guys that are in the middle market, you know, humanize what they're doing and help them win deals by saying, hey, when you're doing a deal, you're doing a deal with me. Like, my name's on the door, like Peter Brockway used to do. So my answer to that question is. About. Humanizing. Who are you beyond the capital and beyond the PowerPoint decks and beyond the RR numbers and all the other factual shit that you, you need to qualify yourselves and say, we're elite. That's, that's the price of entry into a crowded, almost commoditized world.

9:43 So how are, how are buying decisions made? Because who, you know, somebody owns a company and who are they going to crawl in bed with and sell their company to is a buying decision. And somebody is gambling, like their life, with which firm they take. And sometimes they take, you know, opt out of, you know, when they sign loi, they opt out because they get the willies. It is a human process, and that means emotions are involved and it's often irrational around decisions around, you know, these kinds of considerations. So we say, look, you have to bring your facts, your hoard of facts on and throw them on the table. Right? Otherwise you're not, you're not going to get to second base. Right? Right. Get through that stuff.

10:27 But defining yourself in a brand environment, in a communications environment, which is multiple audiences across different avenues of communication over time, you know, again, we'll come back to what you've done with HALO that I'm frankly so in love with is because it requires patience and focus and discipline. And don't stray off the reservation. Just get something that you believe in that is true, that is understandable, that you can rent, repeat 100,000 times. And if you can do that, you're going to be way ahead of anybody else because the bar is set in private equity very low.

11:09 This is. People, I want to let you in. On a little secret. There's this company called Promotion Vault. And what they do is they give. Out rewards from retailers that allow you to incentivize your members without having to do zero down and one month free or giving away shakes or giving away T shirts. What you want to do is build a rewards program that lasts, that people value, and that doesn't discount your own products and services. So here's the deal. There's something called Rewards Vault. The Rewards Vault is going to allow a member to set up their own profile. They are going to answer questions. You are going to get those answers. You're going to be able to target. Those members, and you're going to reward them inside your Integrity club, inside your Integrity spa, and outside of the club and outside of the spa to get them to become loyal, to get them to pay their monthly dues, and to be rewarded properly for the actions. A lot of companies are cutting back on rewards.

12:05 You shouldn't be. Promotion Vault, your answer, trust me, this is real. So, HALO, you brought that up at the beginning. They were one of the debt providers to several Brockway deals early on. And there was a woman named Kathy who came from HALO. I think worked at Brockway as a partner at one point as well. They built their reputation on being reliable. They would stick with you to the end. They were flexible. They showed up, they took your phone calls, they never walked away from a credit. And they built that up over time.

12:45 But that was. They built that up. The people built that brand, you know, as you did, like, kind of build it up, like in the, in the external way and then like the chat around the private equity groups. And that's kind of how things get done, right? It's like, hey, like, these guys have. They're elite. They have a reputation. You've kind of helped them create that. And then it's like, hey, are you on my blacklist or on my, my green list? Right? I got guys on my blacklist because they just don't do what they say they're going to do. So how did you. How do you stay involved in making sure that, like, the brand equity is being preserved or, like, what are the founders or the managing partners doing? And then you're able to, like, take that and kind of package it up as like either PR or content or, hey, like, you're sticking with like, what we, what we. What we put out here.

13:35 There are certain best practices in storytelling, marketing, pr, I'll call it communications management, reputation management, that send categories and situations, right? It's, you know, brands of brands, people to people, Marketing is marketing. And there's some higher wisdom to all of this stuff. And so to get our private equity clients to agree to that and opt into the higher wisdom and is probably half the battle. You know, hear a lot of, well, but we're different. Well, every freaking category says they're different. So, you know, truckers say they're different. So it's like both are true. You know, private equity is unique in particular and specific about all kinds of dynamics. But the macro, what works in communication and messaging.

14:26 Is, you know, I use this, Peter, I use this metaphor of this reference all the time. I use the model of Starbucks. It's really simple. We understand Starbucks. Starbucks invented the idea of premium coffee that can be customized exactly the way you want it. Now, what does Starbucks really sell? They do not sell coffee. They sell mass customization in 25,000 Starbucks around the world, including China. And I've been in a bunch in China, by the way. It's the exact same experience. You walk up to the barista, it's in a beautiful environment. You have literally 10,000 drinks you can order at the counter. You pay your money, and in a minute and a half, there's your drink. That's it. They don't mess it up. So that's what they sell. And it happens to be a great product.

15:13 And the store environment, the lighting's beautiful and people beautiful, and they say hello to you and they smile and all that good stuff. And they have multiple audiences. They have consumers, they have baristas, they have guys that work in the warehouse. They have suppliers, coffee growers in Guatemala and Colombia and a bunch of other countries. They have Wall Street, they have social media. But you only get one brand. You only get one brand. Now you have to nuance it and address the different self-interests of these audience segments, because you know what they only care about what are you gonna do for me? What are you gonna do for me? Why? I don't care about the. I'm a consumer. I don't care about the baristas. All I want is, what are you gonna do for me? So if you take that same, you know, call it recipe and apply it into private equity, it's equally as applicable. That's half the battle. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I saw something with Jonathan Gray from Blackstone addressing the recruits this year, and he basically said, you know, be present, question how we do things here, but, you know, care and show everybody respect. And I think Blackstone's done a really good job of maintaining that. And also Blackstone, as an example, like, they put out some videos that my team might not let me put out. Like, they put up some satire stuff that's, like, really funny, but, like, they got a couple of billionaires running around there, you know, like, dress it up in like a Halloween costume or something. They released that. Or, you know, the president's, like, jogging. He's like, I mean, like, you know, Shanghai today, and I'm jogging down the street. He's talking about, like,

16:45 a Taylor Swift song that his daughter listening to, you know, so. So it's interesting, like, branding capital and branding people. And as you. As you look at that and say, like, who do you want to work with? Are you. Are you working directly with these people on their, like, their LinkedIn profiles, on their, you know, articles that they're putting out and, you know, videos. Yeah, okay. All of it. Because there's some guys that. There's some guys that'll say to me, like, hey, man. Like, I don't. I'm not on LinkedIn. Or I'm like, I don't need to do this or, you know, that. That's not, that's not. I'm, I'm not, I don't need to be like, socially. I don't, I don't need to be on social media as much like, hey, dude, dude. Because like, if, if you have like 500 followers on LinkedIn and that's it, you know, like, you're not an authority in what you're doing. Well, look, I mean, people are free to believe that. They want to believe. Doesn't mean they're right. Yeah, if somebody said that to me, you know, I don't need this, I would say good luck and find another agency. And by the way, you're wrong. Yeah, I mean, it's a great way for you. There are times when I'm just like, look, we're not going to get along. Like, you can't be my client.

17:56 Like, I don't think we're going to. We don't gel here. Like, we don't think of the world the same way. I'm sure you do too. Switching gears completely, what do you think of Liquid Death? You know, I like everybody, you know, in America 2025, see their product on the shelves all over the place. Yeah, I think it's just one of the most interesting branding stories of the last 20 years because it's so audacious. It's crazy, right? Risk behind whatever they thought their agenda was or their strategy and it's worked. Like, again, I just want to like bow down to them in the risk taking and then executing against whatever they thought they were trying to do. And they made it work. Hats off to a hundred thousand for. Everybody, for everyone who doesn't, for anyone who doesn't know what Liquid Death is doing. They basically took a canned water drink and turned it into, as if it was like the most potent alcohol, you know, cocktail that you could make. And they got like doctors drinking it before they go into surgery and, you know, like police would drink it and they're like these crazy web commercials that they put out there. Just like, it's like, it's shocking to me. Look, again, it's. It is audaciousness as an end game. And for a lot of folks that don't have the appetite or the stomach for it or the budget or the, or the creatives to execute against it, you can have the best idea in the world, but if the execution sucks creatively, it's going to fall flat. And the folks,

19:28 whoever did their stuff knew what they were doing. That's all I'm saying, yeah. Let me tell you what pisses me off about private equity and then you can tell me how you fit into this to help solve it. Okay, I got clients that have like 20 different portfolio companies. Okay. And I'm like, hey, are you helping them? Do you have an awesome marketing agency in one company that you're basically like having them work with on their other companies? Do you have an awesome sourcing person that is buying all these like office supplies and buying like have these vendor related. They're like, you know, do like we're thinking about setting this thing up. Like what the fuck you waiting for dude? Like, like you own all these companies, you can help optimize their cost structure. You can help them like understand how to do salesforce.

20:13 There's a couple of groups that do it, but then I'm like, scratches my head. We're like, no, no, that's the CEO's decision. I'm like, aren't you like the value added like strategic private equity guy who's like biggie bringing best people and best practices? Maybe some groups do it, but I would say the majority of them like are just like managing assets instead of like optimizing businesses. It drives me crazy. So let me give you a two part answer. Most of our PE firm clients who make introductions into the leadership of their portfolio companies are very careful to say it's their decision, it's their budget and that's fine. There's a handful who just say, I'm just gonna say, you know, do this and work with these guys and prioritize it.

20:58 At the end of the day there's no right answer to this stuff. Look, ideally from a self interested perspective, we are trying to sell long term relationship at a firm level and sort of prove the fact that we're you know, doing great work and good, easy to work with and priced right and all that and so throw us the stuff. And you know there are certain firms that buy into that value proposition, others that, that are that, that don't. At the end of the day it's a large enough world, there are four or five thousand firms are what that you know, all I really need is 25 relationships, not 600. Yeah, sure, sure. You know, a very healthy living. Yeah. When you take a look at groups that are doing due diligence on the front end, we're getting involved and sometimes like they don't want to pay to like have buy side diligence work. I'm like dude, whatever you pay us, like you're Going to make four or five times that amount just by like this insight or like effect that you can't have on your own because you're not, you don't live in the industry. Are you, are you being brought in on the front end to be like, hey Pete, like we're buying this company like they do xyz. Can you take a look at their marketing, like positioning, like where these guys are, where we can take this? Are they doing that up front yet as they should be or not as much? So we developed a specific Integrity sales and marketing pre close stage due diligence offering in January, frankly on the advice of another investment banker. And so we've been pitching it for four or five months now. We've had a couple, you know, a couple of bites in

22:29 every general presentation of our skills and deliverables. It is the first thing we talk about. So I would tell you that it's maybe coming a little bit slower than I would like because it's a little bit like fishing. You could be the world's best fisherman but if there aren't fish in the pond, they aren't biting, you're not going to get a bite. So it's a little bit of serendipity or timing and I think that once we start to gather them and then you turn around and show to somebody else, look what we did for these guys. We did a huge project in February to package a company for sale because there was a huge gap between the sophistication of company, how they showed and they were getting ready to be represented by one of the Integrity brand name I banks who said you need to clean this up and go find somebody who can do this in one month. And that was good. It was a massive undertaking. And in five weeks we did a 50 page website and two 3 minute extremely high end videos. And you know, I think the deal is going to be closing this month or next and I'm curious to see how it played out in market. But this was a huge project for us about packaging a company.

23:37 Yeah. And I, I would love to do more, but it was a totally cool assignment. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'll be part of some buy side agreements where you know, they, they want to do a private equity firm, wants to do a Bain study or a McKinsey study for several million dollars and they want to have that in the file just in case like this thing doesn't go well. They'll be like, well Bain told me it was going to be okay, you know, and they're like relying on like this report, which is like looking in a rearview mirror as far as I'm concerned, versus saying like, hey, you know, if you look at this as like a sports team, you know, instead of looking at like what happened last year and like have some expert or specialists trying to like forecast some keger, like, what if I just put the best fucking people on the field against this, you know, view the asset is like an opportunity and let me just swarm this asset with my best people. What do you think? Is it the Bain report for 2 million or like the tactical deployment of 2 million? Like what's a better use of proceeds?

24:44 Because it drives me a little bit crazy and I want to talk to consumer on the inside. The monetization of 2 million is, you know, 1.7 for the, the Bain name and 300,000 for the work, right? Yeah, exactly. And that's their model and God bless him, and I hope to be there someday. But you know, you and I both know that if I make something, they paid me 300 grand, I, I could deliver three times the value. But I have, you know, 11000 of the brand name. Yeah, sure. So, you know, that's just the business world and, and you and I will never fight that. Yeah, I'm not trying to fight that. I'm just trying to maybe use this as a means of communication to people that are listening to say, hey, what's my uses of my transaction fees? And would it be better if I just hired like an all star team to play for me, then 60 pages of PowerPoint to put in a file. I don't know. Maybe you can think about that. You wrote this book called Time to Win Again, which we'll send over to you, that's just basically a caricature of like how to run your business like a sports team. 52 takeaways, take timeouts, you know, know your competition, take the points. You know, like all these different, like, you know, things. You'll like it. It's like, it's like good to great meets, like Where's Waldo? You'll, you'll, you'll appreciate. Dave, let's get that out right away. If you, I think I saw and you know, some of the background. Did you know for our podcast that, you know, you're a big team sports guy and a lot of approach things. I'm the same way. I grew up and still play

26:14 sports and like play my big sports these days are I run, I ski, play tennis, I play golf. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I just got to Be set in. Golf club, you know, get at it. And it's so much fun. But, you know, it's like, I kind of run the agency, sort of like, I play soccer grind, and I play it like I'm the coach of the team. And we only have one expression at the agency. That's it. Which is, we win as a team, we lose as a team. Yeah. One of the. Yeah. One of the chapters of the book is, if you want more than five months in 29 days severance, okay. Will not give me a day more because that's the last day of the super bowl and the first day of preseason. If you're like a cfo, you're looking for more than that. You can't find one of 5,000 companies to work for that have more than like 2 million of you. But, like, that's on you, bro. Like, that's your severance package. All right, So I want to do a little bit different with whatever time you have left. Yeah, good. I want to interview you a little bit for your way, bro, because I am. And I want your quotes.

27:15 I am smitten with what you've done with the tournament. Oh, really? Thank you, dude. I think it's the coolest thing in the world. So I want to. I want to get just the origin story of how that came to you and how you decide to pursue it. And fast forward to today. This is Pete Moore. Here's the last tip for you of the podcast. We are partnered up with a company called Higherdose. Higherdose.com they are the leader in workout recovery products. Infrared technology, LED light masks, neck enhancers, and other products such as PEMF mats and sauna blankets. If you have not gotten on the workout recovery train yet, your time and your stop is now. You got to get these products in there before these workout recovery and spas end up saturating your market.

28:10 Having your members walk out of the club and going into one of their locations for 200 bucks per month where they're paying 39 to you. Let's become an expert in workout recovery. If we are already an authority in workouts, higher dose, check it out. There's a wholesale code. And we look forward to helping you augment your products and services to meet the demands of your members. And hey, let's get people happy, healthy and sweating. And the recovery should be just as. Good as the workout. Look like you play? I played soccer growing up. What position did you play? I played left. Everything. Because I was. I'm a lefty. Lefty. Okay, sounds a goalie. So I was always, like, the guy that, like, made sure we didn't lose, right? I'm not the guy who's like, did I? They're not holding me up at the end. They're like, you know, pat me on the back, be like, yo, bro, thanks for making sure I'm making that safe. So I've always been, like, in the background and try to, like, make other people win. And I've always played defense for some reason. I'm like, play middle linebacker and flag football. I play, like, roller hockey defense. You know, I'm third baseman on the team because I'm like the guy ready to take the shot, you know, when a softball comes or something like that, or a catcher.

29:21 So that's like, my whole DNA is like, how do I help other people succeed? And I got lucky enough with Brockway Moran bought Gold's Gym. Scott, you'll love the story. First day I get there. August 99. 8-1-99. They have. Everybody's around the conference room table down in Boca, and they have three deals. The first one is, we got an exclusive. We're under loi to buy this company that has a diagonal soap dispenser patent in the bathrooms of the airplanes and the blue chemicals. And I was like, I didn't want to catch eye contact with anyone because that wasn't very interesting to me. The second was an agricultural tank business, which, being from New York City area, like, I don't really know much about food except eating, which I'm really good at. And then. And then they're like, hey, we're gonna buy Gold's Gym with the largest Gold's Gym franchisee. And I'm like, hey, man, I was the interview athlete of the year back at Emory in 93. And I have a Gold's Gym tank top that fits and Gold's Gym membership. So can I be on the Gold Steel? And that's how I got drafted into the industry originally from there. And I had a banking background. So long story short, I ended up working at Broccoli Moran for about a year. Then I started up an Internet group that was an affiliate sister company of Gold's Gym.

30:38 And then I came back to banking and started helping people buy and sell fitness companies. And I kept telling people I'm a health and wellness banker. And for some reason, I don't know what it is, dude, but if you say the word wellness enough, like, you start to get sick in your stomach because you don't like that word. Doesn't it's not. It's like saying, like, the word normal or saying, like, the word mediocre or saying, like, the word, like, vanilla. You know, it's just like, there's nothing that pops to it. And I googled the word, and I. It came out that there was a guy in the 1950s named Dr. Halbert Dunn who was a biostatistician at the Mayo Clinic. And he's looking at the data and he's like, oh, everyone's getting sick. I got to come up with the movement, you know, to get people healthy. So he basically came up the antonym of illness. So the wellness industry is the not sick industry. And then I started to say to myself and to Dave Ganlon, who's on my call here, I'm like, dude, I'm not gonna become, like, I'm not the health and wellness banker anymore, because I'm just, like, trying to make sure people don't get sick. Like, that's so boring. And, like, that's not, like, energetic, and that's not, like, it doesn't have anything to do with, like, winning. It doesn't have anything to do with, like, optimizing and, like, using science and, like, help motivating, inspiring people. So we got to come up with a different word.

31:52 And then a couple months later, I literally wake up at three o' clock in the morning and, like, holy shit. Like, I'm like. I was playing Boggle with, like, my grandmother down in, like, Hallandale back in the day, and I'm, like, boggling it up. It's like, H A L O stands for health active lifestyle outdoors. And we're basically creating, like, this halo effect because once you come into the industry and change what you eat and change your. How you exercise and who you interact with and get off your couch, like, you. You're in, like, you don't get out. Like, you become a hilo evangelist, right? And I'm doing marathons instead of going to Panama City, you know, I'm going to wellness retreats instead of going to Vegas. You know, I'm talking to you about, like, what fitness studio I go to instead of, like, what movie I went to, what, you know, club I went to at night, right? So your whole lifestyle changes.

32:36 So we've been using this term halo for now 8 years. I wish I knew you beforehand because we had a wellness retirement party, which was, like, a Weekend at Bernie's thing that we did before COVID like, blew out a cake and, like, try to get this word out of here. And we're coming out with an initiating coverage report on October 3rd. And what I want to do is basically be like Captain Halo. And I want people to be like, hey, I could invest in the Halo sector, which could be a connected fitness company. It could be a kayak company. It could be a wellness hotel. It could be a bicycle company, fitness recovery, anything related to living a better lifestyle. And that's the seven or eight years in. I want to ask a. A direct question. If you rate 0 being awful, 10 being the best around the two dimensions of brand awareness and perception. Yeah, I've heard of that. And if I've heard of it, do I have a really positive image of Halo? Where do you think you are in those dimensions after eight years? I'd say the people in the industry have heard of it.

33:46 I'd say they're positively inclined when they hear about. They like it. The problem is that few of them, like, turn it into, like, the way they talk. They know it's out there. They will use it. If they hear it from someone that uses it, they will respond to it. What's that called? Like, unaided or versus aided? Like, if you did, like, a. If we did a brand survey, it would be like. It would be like, aided. Someone's like, what industry you work in? They'll be like, I work in the health and fitness and wellness and sports and entertainment and outdoors lifestyle industry. Right? And I'll be like, yo, bro, why don't you just use Halo? Like, I've told you this ten times already. Like. Or even if, like, you've gone to my Halo academy or you've been on Halo talks. Dave, you could chime in on this too. But, like, so I'm. I'm constantly reminding people, like, use my term. And now I'm starting to put marketing dollars, which I might want your help with marketing dollars behind it to be like, hey, I'm not just gonna. Like, I'm not gonna just grassroots this thing anymore. Like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna talk to this company that does a newsletter. It's gonna say, serving the health, active lifestyle, outdoor sector. I'm gonna put out initiated coverage report. You know, who's the.

34:56 Who's the genius of all time at this? And I'm not. I'm not getting into politics, but Trump is with Matt and all of that stuff. He just develops a term or language and beats it to death and repeats, repeats, repeats, repeats until it's burned into your head, whether you like it or not. And he is the master practitioner at that he just pounds shit in your head and you can't forget it. So, so, so I'd say if on a scale of one to ten, I would say we're at. I'm at a two and a half right now. Okay. And I'm not happy about it because I've spent a lot of time, effort, energy, and some marketing dollars that have not responded, not economically. I was just interviewing this guy, Duff McDonald. By the way, we just did an awesome podcast this morning with this guy. He's like, just focus on the present. Don't focus on the numbers. The numbers are going to happen after you focus on the present. Focus on the present. You're going to win and you're going to execute. Then we'll talk about the numbers later. So point is, we spent a lot of capital and a lot of resources and I have this report coming out which will send a copy of you copy to you. And then we might have to hire you to help us. Be like, hey, man, I want every fucking private equity group to have this on their website. When you say, oh, I focus on consumer, industrial, you know, health and wellness. Like, no, dude, just put the word halo on your website. Like, I've asked you for seven years now as like a fever. I don't want to do it as a fever anymore. I want it to be. This is a category and I need you to. To note. I need you to acknowledge that this

36:30 is a category. Just like the oil and gas industry is the energy industry. Somebody who works in financial services. I'll rant for a second that they're doing wealth management now. Nobody says, well, what do you do working for the service. No, dude, I'm in wealth management, you know. Right. That's how they say it, right? The guys in Vegas, they don't say, I'm in the gambling industry. I'm gaming and entertainment, you know, in the hospitality industry. Even if I have a red roof in. Everything you're saying is a thousand percent true. Yeah. So I need somebody to help me, like, take this thing and be like, hey, man, this is how you have to package it up and go from like a two and a half to like an eight in like 24 months. And then I could be Captain Halo. Like, I want to be as like, like a superhero and be like, hey, man, I just put $10 billion into like, solving loneliness, obesity, and diabetes. How's that?

37:16 How's that, Mom? Tell my Jewish mother that I finally got my done, that I told her that I would be okay and, like, doing Good things. We'Ve seen positive, like Glean. Glean Scott. Like, like Chelsea Pierce did like a Halo event on unassed. Unaided. Right. That was super cool. We had a, a convention with. What was it? Pete? With Carmel's old company. Yeah, like Credit Swiss. We did, yeah, we did a Halo summit, which is awesome. Like everywhere and it. Yeah, Covid hit and then. But that guy, right, Like I. Carmel, he's now at Jeffries. He's an equity analyst. You can go on his LinkedIn. He says the Halo analyst. Yep.

37:57 So he's like one of our boys now. He's a Halo analyst because I bought him like one of those conductor sticks that says like he's the Halo maestro. So he might be doing it just like payback, you know, like thanking me for that. But I, but I want the term to be out there because I don't want someone to be like out of wellness industry. Nobody made money in the wellness industry because nobody did really. You know, I want them to say like, hey man, I invested in Halo. Why isn't Dick Sporting Goods on the back of every health club website? Like, how do they not talk to each other? There's not one Dick Sporting goods that has a partnership with a health club yet everyone runs on a treadmill in a health club and then he's go buy a pair of sneaker. It doesn't make any sense. So I want to connect everything, dude, I want to connect it. I would try to do that. I probably should mention, and I'm. I'm embarrassed to say I haven't brought this up before this moment, that 17 years ago we rebranded Life Fitness line of exercise equipment for the world. You did the rebranding everything for a hot second they had a Halo technology plug in. By the way, if you go to. Our website and go, yeah, I gotta go check that in there.

39:03 But I mean I, I'm like not connecting the dots here, but it's maybe the second biggest project we've ever done and then for about three and a half years. That's awesome. Yeah, so. So look, we make money on, on deals that we get done. You know, there's some advertising money that we make on like our podcast and doing our Halo Academy. But as you know, like as a banker, if I'm doing a three million dollar deal, a three million dollar investment, we make 5%, 150 grand. Or I do a $50 million deal and make 5%, you know, that changes everybody's lifestyle, you know, in the company and gets us into broader and bigger transactions. So we're working with some 5 billion dollar, 8 billion dollar funds right now on.

39:44 On buy sides in the halo sector. But it's like I got a nudge up to be like, dude, can you fucking use my term already? Like, I got on stage with this guy and we paid him. What do you pay that guy? Fifteen grand. Fucking A. Oh, we're still on the podcast. I gotta be careful here. I didn't know we were still recording. Yeah, I'm just. That's right. God made editing. All right, we can edit this out. No. So I'm paying 15 grand. I'm up on stage, I'm like, hey, man, like, I paid you to use the halo term. Why are you using health, fitness, wellness, lifestyle and outdoors? Like. Like cut the time out, you know? Hey, can you get a. Scott a copy of the book and then get what's. Give me your. I need the. I need the quotes.

40:27 Hit me with the quotes. Okay, so this has been descending, I mean, like a sequential order. My philosophy of life is the following. He who dies with the most beer stories wins. Right. Which is why my podcast is called Beer Source or Private Equity, because I believe that's what matters in life. And I have more beer stores than anybody I know. We'll get to that with you next. So I like that too. As I told you, the. The only credo or kind of, you know, reference in. In the agency is he, when is the team lose a team? Because it comes from my background in team sports and being an athlete and all of that stuff.

41:09 And I think that the beneficial, impactful nature of that thought is incredibly powerful because it starts from day one with no personal, you know, ego or pushing somebody else out of the way. My name is not on the door for a reason. That's mine either. I walk the walk. In honor of the late great. May he rest in peace, Robert Redford today. Yes. Quote is, I can't swim. And then Paul Newman says, swimming, hell, the fall will kill you. And that's Cassidy. Oh, yeah.

41:52 One of the five greatest moments in cinematic history. Yeah, we got. We got a quote glossary that we have at the bottom of our site, and we got some funny, funny videos up there. Well, look, man, it's a pleasure having you on. We could go off for hours here, but I'll be on your podcast. We picked up this up, and then let's catch up on the next one. Great to have you on, man. Go Halo. Go Monogram. Keep doing great things and we'll. I'll catch you on your podcast. Next week. Thank you. Good to see you, bro. Thanks.