Episode #581: Crossing the Tech Chasm-How Teambuildr Is Driving The Future Future of Coaching with Hewitt Tomlin

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This is Pete Moore on Halo Talks nyc. Coming in from

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Arlington, Virginia, an entrepreneur who's turned

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workout cards into a platform that is serving

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thousands of people. Hewitt, Tomlin, thanks for being on the show.

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Thanks for having me today. Awesome. So look, you've dedicated

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your life here to Team Builder and you got some other

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things going on in other tertiary markets which were all about

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the Halo sector. So, you know, give us, give us a little

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background on how you got involved here and how you wake up every day

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passionately knowing that you're going to change a lot of lives. Just might take a

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little time. Yeah, no, I, I'm good at the short version, so don't

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worry about that. Look, my business is a post iOS business.

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IPhone came out my freshman year. I played college football and my

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teammate and I realized that the strength coach is building

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workouts on Excel. With the advent of the iPhone, this was something

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that could be done better for the coach and for the athletes. The team Builder

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originally was a distribution system for collegiate strength

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coaches. What ended up happening was the

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modality of training, like an athlete in a team setting

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really took off in the private sector. CrossFit really popularized

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barbell training. So our business today is not just a team

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sport business. It's a private gym, brick and mortar

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facility, software business for anyone who wants to train.

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You know what I've seen over the evolution, I've been doing this now 26

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years. You know, the amount of strength equipment that's going into these clubs,

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they're pulling out their spinning classes, they're pulling out their

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yoga classes, they're putting in. I was at a club yesterday, they, they just

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put down 40 yards of turf and just loaded the place

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up with, you know, Olympic squat racks. And that seems to be

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where the next generation actually understands the value of strength

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training. And if you're going to get your cardio, you could get it, you know,

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by, by steps and you know, you know, things that are maybe a little more

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rudimentary, but you can't really replace the strength training component

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to, to, to, to, to get stronger and bigger.

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You know, when you started this out and, and kind of looked

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at the market and I'll give you a little background. In 2000, I started

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up a software company, but it was just way ahead of its time.

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What are some of the things that you've been excited about when you either talk

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to strength coaches now where they're not, you know, necessarily wed to their three

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ring binder and they're not wed to their Excel sheet, you know, that they're actually

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embracing this and you're not trying to educate them on technology, which kind

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of what we were doing 26 years ago. Yeah, that it wasn't a fad.

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Yeah, well, I think that excitement has kind of come

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and gone. I started team builder 13 years ago and

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the initial chasm to cross was getting coaches off

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of Excel and off a pen and paper onto a SaaS portal. And

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look, you know as well as anyone that things move quickly

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now. It's less about getting coaches onto a SaaS portal and

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turning our Web 2.0 SaaS portal, if you will,

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into something that is leveraging AI. For example,

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coaches, the early adopters are very interested in using AI as

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sort of a co pilot, like an assistant coach to audit programming

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to just leverage themselves. And that

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chasm will probably be crossed pretty quickly as long as we do a good job

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with it. But the idea is that look, if a coach is like any other

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profession, if you have a 20 year work history, expertise and

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you're still doing work that is sort of commodity

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commoditized, if AI can do it for you, then you

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further leverage your expertise, whether that be coaching or designing

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programs or what have you. That's really what's exciting for, for my industry

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right now. Are there, are there more trainers that

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are not questioning the AI or

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not questioning like the templates or the periodization schedules?

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When we started there were guys that said, well, this is not how I, this

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is not my philosophy. Has the philosophies kind of somewhat

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kind of merged into like, look, there's a best practices and there's a way

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to do this and, and here's the results that you get that you're not being

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maybe going up against somebody's

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belief system or like their education system. I don't know if I'm asking the right

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question, but is there less, is there less like I gotta

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customize this to the point where I'm doing something completely different or I'm

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like got a new modality that I'm trying to, you know.

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Yeah. Leverage myself or my, my personal brand.

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Look, I, I, I see where you're getting at here.

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It's going to be a hard needle for a company like mine to thread. Mean

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we could very well come up with the capability of just creating

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programming from scratch. If we're doing it for the first year strength coach,

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I don't think we're necessarily doing that coach a favor. That coach,

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like a freshman in college needs to be creating their

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own programs, running them, understanding why did it work? Why not

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how did the athletes feel about this? Just like a freshman who's writing a

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paper needs to write a paper from scratch and not use ChatGPT to

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create a paper later on in Life. When you're 20 years into

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this, maybe 10 years, I don't know, then you can say, look,

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I can tell a good program from a bad one. I can use AI here

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to help me out with the knowledge and expertise that is actually not

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doing any harm or we're not cutting corners. As far as my profession

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goes. Kind of like how you and I probably use AI at work

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today. We're not going to do it to do novel things that we don't understand,

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but we will leverage them to do things that we feel confident in auditing and

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not necessarily having to originate. Right? Yeah, right.

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When you take a look at over time, it used to be, you know,

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a health club would have like 8 or 10% of the members maybe

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in personal training. With the advent

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and the implementation of Team Builder or other

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programs that you're involved in, what percentage,

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you know, usage or, or like, you know, what percentage

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of the people do you think are actually using

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technology now? Is it, is it hit a tipping point of,

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you know, maybe even over 50% where people back in the day would

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say like you're crazy. Like it's always going to be what the personal training percentage

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is. I think it's over 50%

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now. Like, mind you, I'm in the biz and

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my anecdotal experience here in Arlington, Virginia, this is like fit central.

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So of course the trainers at my lifetime are probably using these apps. The,

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the clients probably really like them. But all that aside,

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true Coach really came onto the scene and broke through with the

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one on one training trainer. Eyes is sort of like the, the

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stagnant default, no offense to trainerize. And then

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programs like ever, ever fit, who I love personally by the way, are doing a

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really good job in one to one training. So I think one to one

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training for a personal trainer is table stakes. If you're not doing it,

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maybe your clientele is really boutique, really high end,

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hands on, older something. But if

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you're in the middle of the spectrum as a personal trainer, if you're not using

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an app, I think you're leaving something on the table. Yeah. And then

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do you see, you know, after Covid, there were a lot of

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trainers that said, hey, I'm just going to go and build my own, you know,

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business and, and I'm not gonna have to partner with a health

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club or I'm not gonna even show up in health club anymore. I'm gonna go

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and, you know, rent out space. Do you see some of that maybe

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swinging back? Because people that go to a lifetime

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as example, look, I want to go to, I want to play pickleball, I want

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my kids to be here, I want to play basketball, I want to be part

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of a community. I'm not necessarily just looking for one to one

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training. Now the personal trainers basically now say, okay, look, I've got a

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big pond that I could actually fish from.

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Maybe I'll trade that back. Yeah. It

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really comes down to customer acquisition. Lifetime is providing you a

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big pond of, in their case, affluent

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potential customers. When you are on your own,

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you're responsible for your own pond and your own customer

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acquisition. Perhaps you can build a, a good

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starting business. Doing that scaling is where it

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gets hard. I've met many, many trainers who hit their

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initial 20, 30, 40 clients. And then from there

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it's really difficult to take the next step because it's not just you

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and being accountable to your personal services, it's maybe

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delegating your services, building a brand other than your,

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your person. And when you hit that, then you might see someone

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sort of hit a wall. And it really takes someone special, I think, to grow

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beyond that. As far as personal training and brand.

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This is Pete Moore. I want to let you in on a little secret. There's

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this company called Promotion Vault. And what they do is they give out rewards

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from retailers that allow you to incentivize your

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members without having to do zero down and one month free

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or giving away shakes or giving away t shirts. What you want to

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do is build a rewards program that lasts, that people value

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and that doesn't discount your own products and services. So here's the

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deal. There's something called Rewards Vault. The Rewards Vault is going

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to allow a member to set up their own profile. They are

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going to answer questions, you are going to get those answers, you're going to be

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able to target those members and you're going to reward them inside your

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club, inside your spa, and outside of the club and outside

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of the spa to get them to become loyal, to get them to

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pay their monthly dues and to be rewarded properly

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for the actions. A lot of companies are cutting back on rewards. You shouldn't

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be Promotion Vault, your answer, Trust me, this is real.

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So I ran a software company back in 2000, 2003 with some

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guys in Arizona and the software was never done.

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You know, there was always more things and bells and whistles. So as you look

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at Team Builder, you know, how do you prioritize

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what, what the next, you know, version is or what the next update is? You

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know, we used to be able to have a version update that was, you know,

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once a quarter or, you know, once every six months. And now it seems like

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on almost every app you go on, every three or four weeks, you know, there's

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like a new update, you hit your, you know, your password

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protection uploaded. So how do you, how do you feel

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from talking to the entrepreneurs out there, how do you kind of manage

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nice to have, need to have

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continuous improvement or to say, hey look, I got to

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let people kind of digest what the last update was and

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not just keep adding stuff on to this thing because at some point it just

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gets like I might lose what I was trying to do in the first place.

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Yeah. So I can tell you have a background in software because you're

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mentioning a lot of very good principles. There's.

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We are an example of a company that ships a lot of product, I. E.

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We ship a lot of updates. And my partner and I

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more recently have sort of understood that we probably ship too much

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product. We, we've been erring

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on the side of putting out a lot and we

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have to think about the fact that we're a 13 year business now.

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We're not, in other words, we're not early, we're not early stage, we're not a

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newcomer. We're sort of established. And what we've done is we've left

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some technical debt and not back end technical debt, but we've

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had these functions that are core to our platform that haven't

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been really readdressed in favor of creating new

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things. So he and I in 2026 have made a recommitment

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to invest in the quality of life of our existing users by taking

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these very core existing functions and re

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examining them as opposed to creating new. So

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fewer new initiatives and much more consolidation

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and tinkering on what exists already is sort of the.

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As a business leader, I'm learning as a stage of a company that my company

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is now in. Right. So one of the things

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as an adjunct to that, when we took a look at some of the software

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companies that were providing personal training to space and the company that we had,

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you know, we had pretty high attrition. It was like almost like

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100%. It was like 8 point. I remember it's like 8.2% a month.

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Some of that we viewed as like an issue and some of it we viewed

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as look there's always new people coming in every month.

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And maybe what we're providing is not necessarily,

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you know, to, to a potential investor or to, even to ourselves.

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Maybe our goal is not to track, you know, the

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retention. Maybe it's to track how many people we've helped

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people because the attritions really maybe outside of our control or outside of

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like the behaviors that we as like a B2B to

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C software company could really impact. So what's your view on that as

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like a KPI or something that you say like, hey, maybe that's not

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my problem. Like I've got people using my software and I want them to use

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it the way they want to use it. And if they can help somebody for

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three months, awesome. You know, they don't have to be on the, on the, on

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the software for three years. Yeah. How do you think about that? Well, look,

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I'm a founder, which is different than if I was an

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investor. If I'm an investor, I would love for my

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software asset for its customers to

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grow in terms of revenue 15% a year. Right.

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That's inflation plus S&P 500. However,

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I'm not an investor, I'm a founder. I'm not

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necessarily looking to be really efficient at expanding revenue

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out of my existing customers. I, I want, what I want as a founder is

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a very enthusiastic and loyal customer base. And

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with an enthusiastic and loyal customer base that I'm really in tune with,

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I probably can create an opportunity to build more things

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for them that they're willing to pay inflation plus S&P 500 for

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on a year over year basis. So it's, I think it

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definitely starts with quality of life. And when

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you bring a customer in, they don't, don't have a company

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culture that is so overly fixated on the next customer. Once

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a customer is in, they should be treated with a higher priority

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than the next customer because these, this is someone who can potentially stick around

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for a long time. And just last week I was speaking with a customer who

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I calculated on the phone with that person, he had been a customer for 10

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years. Wow. Which is really unbelievable because a 10 year customer

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doesn't go 10 years just paying you your software fee. They talk to a

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lot of people in 10 years. And that one customer is probably responsible for

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referring a lot of other customers that amounted to more than

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inflation plus S&P. Yeah, so. So

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we've been an investor in, I don't know, probably 10 companies

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across the Halo sector. I'd say two of them are

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great investments, eight of them were, you know, experiments that didn't go well.

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Given that you haven't taken in any VC money,

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you kind of can set your own, you know, goals of success, whether that's

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your, you know, your 15% or hey, I've got, I got

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X amount of clients that have been around for 10 years and I've probably kept

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a lot of people alive. I've created relationships that didn't exist

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before. How do you and your partner,

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you know, maybe this is, I'm getting, going to get deep for a second or

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get like, like, like entrepreneurially emotional. But

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like, how do you, how do you kind of gauge your own success to be

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like, yeah, okay, this company raised $50 million and lost all 50 because, you know,

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they don't give a, about anything except trying to do have revenue

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growth. And at some point, you know, this story will be told that it's, it's

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probably not going to end well for, for anybody in there versus say like, hey,

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I got a disciplined company. We're helping these amount of people. You know, I don't

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have any external factors except the ones that I put on myself.

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You know, I was watching something by Tony Robbins the other day that, you know,

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you think everyone externally is a trigger, but you're the trigger that let

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them trigger you. So like, it's in your head type of thing. So how do

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you give us like a little insight to being an entrepreneur for this long

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and say, hey, my goals might not be what, you know, what it says

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they should be. It's what I want them to be? Yeah, it's. Well, thank you

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for asking the question because that's really core to what's

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happening in an entrepreneur's brain and their heart. Right. With their

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business. Yeah, look, there's, there are folks who,

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and no one's right or wrong, right? At this stage. You have a great

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opportunity to create a lot of enterprise value. Not

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wrong. They're correct. And then there are folks and my mentors in

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this camp. You're doing something really cool and what

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it's, what that's allowed you to do is do something even cooler. Right. He's,

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he's talking in terms of impact and, and those things.

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And you know, it really comes down to a lot of

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self reflection. What do you want for yourself?

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And as you get older, I feel like I get a little bit more

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clarity but never really finality. It's just always a thought

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exercise. Where am I? Am I happy with this? And if not,

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where do you go from here? So I will say this. At this point

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I enjoy my conversations with my customers and my

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colleagues and my business partner and my mentor on a

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day to day basis much more than I enjoy conversations with potential

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investors. And so far that that has a lot of meaning

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to it.

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This is Pete Moore. Here's the last tip for you of the podcast.

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We are partnered up with a company called higher dose

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happy, healthy and sweating. And the recovery should be

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just as good as the workout.

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So talk a little bit about the the sweatshirt you got on now with

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Driven, the O and Halo, which is the

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outdoor category, and how excited you are about that. Well, let

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me start with the fact that I'm a former football player turned gym rat. I

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was just in the gym all the time in my 20s and at some point

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I was living in Colorado and spending a lot of time outside and I

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started playing a lot of golf in Colorado, really fell in love with it and

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I found like a different aspect. This is part of Halo, right? I was the

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health and fitness guy in the gym and I'm like, what's the point of being

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the gym rat if I can't go express my athletic qualities

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somehow? And golf was that for me. So lo and behold,

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a couple years ago I met a founder who was creating Driven, which is a

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fitness app for golfers. And it's about taking an athletic approach

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to golf, which I love because golf instruction has been all

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biomechanical and I felt I've seen a lot of good

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athletes look like not athletes when they swing a golf club.

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And Driven to me is like taking athleticism and golf and

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merging them. And I just fell in love with the business. So now I I

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invest in and support this Driven business as it brings athletic performance

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training to the golf community. And are you leveraging

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anything from Team Builder or, you know, mentor

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or actual like technical software? Not

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technical, because the Driven app in its own right is a very good

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app. I actually got involved with the business as a de facto

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mentor to the founder and before stepping in as an investor

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and somewhat of an operator and advisor. So I'm, I'm leveraging

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my full Team Builder experience and network to help Driven. I

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just love the mission of I, you know, I, I play a lot of golf,

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I know a lot of golfers, and I really can't stand when folks love golf

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and they're battling injuries, they're not healthy,

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they're so close. Right. Because they have a love for a game that makes you

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move. But the other piece of the puzzle is, is that you have to prepare

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for it. And as you prepare for the game, you, you look better, feel

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better, swing better, live longer. So, you know, I just,

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I, I want, I'm really passionate about it. We're, we're working with a company called

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Golf Zone Golf Z and they from Korea. So they're,

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they're coming in with some more of these simulators. Cool. Which would, would definitely

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improve people's games as well. So, so in closing here,

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you know, to talk a little bit about T Builder and the types

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of clients that this is best suited for. We're

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a B2B business. We work with coaches. Athletes can't sign up for

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Team Builder without being invited by a coach. If you are a strength

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coach and you want to measure how much weight someone's doing, if you're writing

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progressive overload training programs, you're a fit

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for us. Whether that's high school, college gym

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training facility, what have you, that's who Team Builder is for.

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And if you're interested in Driven, if you play golf and you're

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interested in being a fitter person for golf

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or just in general or both. Driven. Is this the one for you?

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Right. Well, I just moved to Scottsdale, Arizona, so I will be on Driven

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when I get home from this business trip. You're, you're in the epicenter of

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the. Yeah. And we got, we, we're going to be attending an event in,

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in, in Arlington actually. Great. Next year called

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Fitness Technology Summit that you should definitely come to. So we'll get that, we'll get

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that set up and coordinated. Oh, great. Have you been to Arlington before by chance?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whoever does the rankings every year,

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Arlington is, is up there and you know, fittest cities in America.

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And it's so true. You have a lot of type A personalities living

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here with college degrees. And for some reason,

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Arlington has just always been like, fitness is like another badge on

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your resume. Right? Where you do, where you go to the gym. And you know

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what? There's worse things to have than that. Yeah, no, there's, I mean, some of

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the, some of the top boutiques, fitness studio concepts have come out of

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that, that Nerf, so. All right, man. Well, awesome. Great to have you on the

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show. Good talking you, man. Congrats on what you built and keep waving the

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Halo flag for us and we make, we'll make big change. Thanks for

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having me on such a great. Appreciate it. Good talking, bro.

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This is Pete Moore on Halo talks. Your captain speaking. I am

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the founder and managing partner at Integrity Square. We've been around

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now for 15 and 1/2 years. We have been helping

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people like yourselves get capital, do mergers and

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acquisitions, consulting, strategic advice in the health,

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active lifestyle and outdoor halo sector, trying to

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help as many entrepreneurs as possible get to the next level,

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take that inflection point and be the force behind your growth.

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We are helping companies that have at least $3 million of

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EBITDA, around $10 million of revenue and

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we are positioned to help you get institutional growth capital

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00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:44,770
or to negotiate deals with strategic partners. If

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00:23:44,770 --> 00:23:48,570
you go to integritysq.com isq

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00:23:48,570 --> 00:23:52,170
you can see our capabilities. Deck Happy to set up a consultation at any

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time that is free of charge and we look for forward to

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helping solve obesity, loneliness and diabetes

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and go Halo.